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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: I am in a curious position posting on this. I teach research methods and think statistics have little value in audio. posted by Norm on December 11, 2006 at 06:35:21:
watching grown men attempting to justify audio equipment purchases based on results, "science" or "technical knowledge" garnered or applied by others.Could you imagine women discussing the technical merits or the chemical compositions of the perfumes they purchase - or even better yet advertisers marketing by focusing on these topics.
We buy wine because of it's taste, perfume because of it's smell and should buy audio because of it's sound. Even mostly unemotional purchases like washing machines and refridgerators are made based on function and convenience.
These are all functions of individual preferences/satisfaction based on taste/flavor/sound, and functionality, and convenience. We don't need scientists or statisticians proving to us as individuals which or what is preferential - that's our business.
Unless an individual is involved in a DBT, blind listening test or comparison the results are useless. Taste testing or "smell" testing or listening testing by others may limit what we as individual can taste, smell or hear as it effects what is marketed or available to us - however we should take it upon ourselves to taste, smell or hear as much as possible before we make up our own minds. The less rely on the "testing" of others the more confident we can be with our own decisions.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - DBT Proponents --- Where do they get their confidence? - bjh 11:15:45 12/09/06 (353)
- I am in a curious position posting on this. I teach research methods and think statistics have little value in audio. - Norm 06:35:21 12/11/06 (117)
- Re: I am in a curious position posting on this. I teach research methods and think statistics have little value in audio - RGA 06:24:27 12/19/06 (0)
- For those not usually inclined to read through a very long "debate..." - robert young 14:50:38 12/16/06 (3)
- Re: For those not usually inclined to read through a very long "debate..." - Pat D 07:11:07 12/18/06 (0)
- Re: For those not usually inclined to read through a very long "debate..." - Analog Scott 12:04:46 12/17/06 (1)
- ...and now for something completely different......(nt) - robert young 12:26:51 12/17/06 (0)
- Thanks guys ... - bjh 09:03:03 12/14/06 (11)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - kerr 09:16:13 12/15/06 (10)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - andy19191 15:03:18 12/15/06 (9)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - kerr 17:19:19 12/16/06 (8)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - andy19191 02:20:35 12/18/06 (7)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - kerr 04:43:31 12/18/06 (6)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - andy19191 07:34:06 12/18/06 (5)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - kerr 09:33:42 12/18/06 (4)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - andy19191 02:42:17 12/19/06 (3)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - kerr 04:50:10 12/19/06 (2)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - andy19191 03:09:00 12/20/06 (1)
- Re: Thanks guys ... - kerr 09:12:26 12/20/06 (0)
- I agree Norm. There's great humor in audio..... - Don T 07:50:36 12/14/06 (0)
- Re: I am in a curious position posting on this. I teach research methods and think statistics have little value in audio - Todd Krieger 00:10:59 12/14/06 (1)
- I am not saying that a technical knowledge would not be helpful - Norm 06:32:51 12/14/06 (0)
- I am curious what DBT advocates do themselves - Analog Scott 18:46:45 12/13/06 (71)
- Re: I am curious what DBT advocates do themselves - Pat D 15:52:45 12/14/06 (69)
- "Why on earth does anyone need to validate their experience? And how on earth could it be done with a DBT?" The irony! - Analog Scott 22:15:05 12/14/06 (68)
- Nonsense: YOU came up with the concept of validating experiences, so YOU get to explain it. - Pat D 02:26:09 12/15/06 (67)
- LOL I can up with the idea of validating experiences? Just what is an objectivist asking for when they demand DBTs ? - Analog Scott 08:50:11 12/15/06 (38)
- Please explain your own term: "validation of subjectivists' perceptions." - Pat D 12:14:51 12/15/06 (37)
- Just look up each word in the dictionary and put the idea together for yourself. nt - Analog Scott 23:33:38 12/15/06 (31)
- So you really don't know what you meant! But I already knew that. - Pat D 07:41:18 12/16/06 (30)
- That is a truly pathetic - Analog Scott 08:56:09 12/16/06 (29)
- Yes, you say things so confused that you can't explain what you mean by them. - Pat D 09:44:48 12/16/06 (28)
- dude do you do anything besides chasing your tail? - Analog Scott 10:20:59 12/16/06 (27)
- I just trying to chase down your allegation. - Pat D 11:03:41 12/16/06 (26)
- That's reaaly sad. You tried to chase a simple concept and followed your tail round and round instead. nt - Analog Scott 11:42:30 12/16/06 (25)
- No specifics, no data, no references. (nt) - Pat D 11:48:11 12/16/06 (24)
- Wrong. - Analog Scott 16:39:29 12/16/06 (23)
- Nope. Here's one of your posts. - Pat D 19:37:06 12/17/06 (22)
- Yes and if you read it and understand it you would see that you are wrong - Analog Scott 21:36:34 12/17/06 (21)
- I understand well enough that you make up silly opinions for me. - Pat D 06:27:03 12/18/06 (20)
- In reality you make up silly opinions of me and offer no support - Analog Scott 09:30:23 12/18/06 (19)
- Come on, tell Unca' Pat what's troubling you! (nt) - Pat D 17:04:04 12/18/06 (18)
- I have. you still don't get it - Analog Scott 17:08:39 12/18/06 (17)
- I get it that you make a lot of allegations about what my opinions are but provide no evidence. - Pat D 18:01:46 12/18/06 (16)
- No you are just making things up about me and providing no evidence to support it - Analog Scott 20:39:58 12/18/06 (15)
- I gave a link to your false statements about me--where's your support for your false statements? - Pat D 20:46:35 12/18/06 (14)
- wrong again - Analog Scott 21:25:12 12/18/06 (13)
- Please provide evidence your "flase" statements are true. (nt) - Pat D 05:36:43 12/19/06 (12)
- Please provide evidence my true statements are false. (nt) - Analog Scott 22:32:10 12/19/06 (0)
- Evidence Of One Of Pat D-Cakes "false" Statements! - thetubeguy1954 09:09:47 12/19/06 (10)
- Where's the false statement? Evidence please. (nt) - Pat D 09:42:31 12/19/06 (9)
- Evidence Of Pat D-Cakes "false" Statements! (Lies?0 - thetubeguy1954 12:52:58 12/19/06 (8)
- Holy $hit - E-Stat 14:05:39 12/19/06 (7)
- Do you understand the concept of suspending judgment when evidence is not available? - Pat D 14:50:13 12/19/06 (6)
- Ah, so that is what you call your non-positions! - E-Stat 15:09:56 12/19/06 (5)
- So you agree that I don't assert the null hypothesis! - Pat D 00:15:47 12/20/06 (4)
- You continue to illustrate the point most vividly - E-Stat 05:32:11 12/20/06 (3)
- Well, that's the issue. TG54 insists that I believe something which I do not. - Pat D 17:20:41 12/20/06 (2)
- The Issue YOU Deny What You Say - thetubeguy1954 09:30:50 12/21/06 (1)
- I say "some" and you somehow understand "every" or "none." - Pat D 18:00:55 12/21/06 (0)
- A Bunburyist - kerr 13:40:20 12/15/06 (4)
- I thought *everyone* knew ... poor Pat-D-cat, talk about green behind the ears! nt - bjh 13:47:32 12/15/06 (0)
- Addendum - kerr 13:41:37 12/15/06 (2)
- I'll supply a hint: it's found in a play by Oscar Wilde. - Pat D 15:34:46 12/15/06 (1)
- Re: I'll supply a hint: it's found in a play by Oscar Wilde. - kerr 16:36:35 12/16/06 (0)
- Pat, Pat, calm down Pat, stop screaming. It's not good for you health Pat. nt - bjh 04:26:58 12/15/06 (27)
- He has to scream - Analog Scott 08:55:04 12/15/06 (19)
- Testable claims. - Pat D 10:28:59 12/15/06 (16)
- Your claims are testable but you don't test them. Why? nt - Analog Scott 16:38:33 12/16/06 (15)
- Changing your ground, again? Well, you can lead the horse to the water . . . (nt) - Pat D 18:25:00 12/16/06 (14)
- Why all the posturing? Why not just answer straight questions with straight answers? - Analog Scott 18:59:50 12/16/06 (13)
- Because you evidently don't read what I do say. - Pat D 20:52:20 12/16/06 (12)
- no you don't read what I say. nt - Analog Scott 11:58:47 12/17/06 (11)
- I certainly can read your false statements about me. - Pat D 18:33:46 12/17/06 (10)
- How? none exist - Analog Scott 21:37:37 12/17/06 (9)
- You still provide no evidence. (nt) - Pat D 06:59:51 12/18/06 (8)
- Thanks for admitting you provided no evidence for your assertions. - Analog Scott 09:32:17 12/18/06 (7)
- You provide no evidence I have made those assertions in the first place. - Pat D 17:10:45 12/18/06 (6)
- so now you are denying all your previous assertions? - Analog Scott 21:26:39 12/18/06 (5)
- What previous assertions? Links please. (nt) - Pat D 05:35:13 12/19/06 (4)
- You don't know what you asserted? - Analog Scott 22:10:37 12/20/06 (0)
- Links Provided! - thetubeguy1954 14:06:05 12/19/06 (2)
- Which don't say what you allege. - Pat D 14:56:53 12/19/06 (1)
- What are you babbling about? - Analog Scott 15:13:39 12/22/06 (0)
- The REAL Pat D Revealed At Last - thetubeguy1954 09:17:08 12/15/06 (0)
- To be fair to objectivists ... - bjh 09:01:02 12/15/06 (0)
- Ahhh, so you can't explain it, either! (nt) - Pat D 07:04:00 12/15/06 (6)
- Pat, let's address the core issue, shall we? - bjh 07:38:48 12/15/06 (5)
- "I, of course, admit the foregoing is a case of unsubstianted speculation " --Errr . . yeah, glad to hear it. - Pat D 07:55:24 12/15/06 (4)
- Okey dokey, ignore the advice, - bjh 08:13:45 12/15/06 (3)
- OK: Explain how to answer nonsensical questions and straw man arguments. - Pat D 08:43:55 12/15/06 (2)
- Pest nt - bjh 08:56:21 12/15/06 (1)
- I didn't think you'd know. (nt) - Pat D 10:53:11 12/15/06 (0)
- Also if you hear something that is beyond your means, is it your imagination that makes it sound no different? nt - Norm 20:38:06 12/13/06 (1)
- I think you're mixing apples and orangutans - lipmanl@hotmail.com 12:48:20 12/12/06 (1)
- I have been at the hobby for over 40 years. Yes equipment is far superior to the old equipment, but - Norm 16:14:20 12/12/06 (0)
- Yea. this is human freedom, our right. (nt) - cheap-Jack 08:33:13 12/12/06 (0)
- "this is a hobby where we are not participating in the advancement of knowledge" (it doesn't have to be so mystical) - Richard BassNut Greene 13:04:45 12/11/06 (21)
- It is fine for some to seek trivia about their hobbies, this has nothing to do with advancing science. Neither does DBT. - Norm 16:46:46 12/11/06 (20)
- ummm, Norm? - jneutron 10:53:18 12/12/06 (6)
- What? You dare question Richard's tag line?!!! - Pat D 02:34:14 12/15/06 (4)
- Re: What? You dare question Richard's tag line?!!! - bjh 05:41:01 12/15/06 (3)
- Re: What? You dare question Richard's tag line?!!! - jneutron 07:05:01 12/15/06 (2)
- Well I doubt I could find anything that you'd find - bjh 07:55:07 12/15/06 (1)
- Re: Well I doubt I could find anything that you'd find - jneutron 09:13:41 12/15/06 (0)
- I know, but I thought it suited my point on this question. nt - Norm 14:04:44 12/12/06 (0)
- In the Stereophile blind amplifier test people heard "differences" 62% of the time when an amp was compared with itself - Richard BassNut Greene 08:47:33 12/12/06 (11)
- 38% weren't fooled - they must be the "Golden Ears" you talk about....(nt) - mkuller 09:33:33 12/14/06 (1)
- It was a Stereopile test -- they all had to be members of the Golden Ear club to participate = sad results! - Richard BassNut Greene 09:51:45 12/14/06 (0)
- In my view... - Wellfed 00:09:02 12/13/06 (7)
- I too don't like dogmatic individuals, but their activity here little affects anyone, IMHO. - Norm 06:31:22 12/13/06 (6)
- Unfortunately... - Wellfed 07:10:57 12/13/06 (5)
- Your error is assuming that any substantial percentage of audiophiles monitor AA. I know many who do not. - Norm 16:14:20 12/13/06 (4)
- I was thinking in more general terms... - Wellfed 17:28:42 12/13/06 (3)
- As the saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water..." I suspect that controversy helps alert people. - Norm 07:40:14 12/14/06 (2)
- It's my understanding... - Wellfed 07:43:03 12/14/06 (1)
- None of my acquaintances are like that. I can see asking that a demo of equipment be without tweaks. nt - Norm 13:47:21 12/14/06 (0)
- Salemen of course want you to buy. I have not bought components from salesmen in 20 years. - Norm 14:20:06 12/12/06 (0)
- So what? - E-Stat 17:35:29 12/11/06 (0)
- Re: DBT Proponents --- Where do they get their confidence? - Todd Krieger 19:43:48 12/10/06 (35)
- Why DBT people "believe" our music perception be "overrated" ??? - cheap-Jack 08:29:12 12/11/06 (34)
- Not one objective audiophile has had the same Golden Ear experience (fantasy) claimed by the Golden Ears - Richard BassNut Greene 13:16:12 12/11/06 (33)
- Liar, liar, pants on fire... - mkuller 19:37:43 12/14/06 (9)
- Mr. Kuller must think 30 feet of 16 gauge and 24 gauge cables is a normal high fidelity use. - Pat D 20:39:35 12/14/06 (8)
- You seem to be assuming... - mkuller 10:29:18 12/15/06 (0)
- Why does *your* choice in speaker wire always come up in these discussions? LOL nt - bjh 21:46:36 12/14/06 (6)
- Nope! For 4 ohm speakers that's sub-par. - Pat D 02:31:46 12/15/06 (5)
- OMG, the Roger Russell research, the gig's up now ... The Horror, The Horror! LOL nt - bjh 05:13:38 12/15/06 (4)
- So you think 30 feet of 24 gauge speaker wire is good for hi-fi? - Pat D 07:27:20 12/15/06 (3)
- Pat give up the idle presumption, would you? A nasty habbit ,... - bjh 08:17:48 12/15/06 (2)
- Oh, so you agree with Roger Russell about 24 gauge wire. Then stop whining! (nt) - Pat D 08:38:28 12/15/06 (1)
- Pest! nt - bjh 08:40:07 12/15/06 (0)
- A Word of Advice..... - Todd Krieger 09:34:37 12/12/06 (0)
- Now that's rich. Are you suggesting objectivists are immune - Analog Scott 17:30:54 12/11/06 (10)
- Yes, subjectivists are most likely dominated by the effects of bias for electronics and especially wires - Richard BassNut Greene 09:17:31 12/12/06 (8)
- Now you are just fooling yourself. Nice job. - Analog Scott 14:21:22 12/12/06 (7)
- You ought to learn something before expounding. - Pat D 17:16:52 12/12/06 (6)
- You ought to learn something about bias effects - Analog Scott 11:45:05 12/16/06 (0)
- Pat do you need explaining that one test a *trend* does not make? Besides that - bjh 20:56:55 12/12/06 (4)
- Still, they heard differences with most of the program material. - Pat D 04:49:24 12/13/06 (3)
- Another Pat-D-cake *says nothing* post ... talk about large-N! LOL nt - bjh 06:55:28 12/13/06 (2)
- Oh, was there some point you were trying to make? (nt) - Pat D 07:33:40 12/13/06 (1)
- Give the guy a break. It's hard to type while jumping up and down stamping one's feet and screaming - Richard BassNut Greene 09:01:33 12/14/06 (0)
- No, objectionists are like your & me, NOT immune to the sonic difference. - cheap-Jack 07:09:32 12/12/06 (0)
- Re: Not one objective audiophile has had the same Golden Ear experience (fantasy) claimed by the Golden Ears - rick_m 15:41:38 12/11/06 (9)
- All audiophiles thought they had golden ears at one time - Richard BassNut Greene 09:39:31 12/12/06 (8)
- Re: All audiophiles thought they had golden ears at one time - thetubeguy1954 10:14:11 12/13/06 (4)
- Why would anyone care? - Richard BassNut Greene 09:23:06 12/14/06 (3)
- Re: Why would anyone care? - john curl 19:44:19 12/15/06 (1)
- Then I guess you haven't learned much in twenty years - Richard BassNut Greene 09:04:37 12/18/06 (0)
- You've Made The Subjectvists Arguement For Them. - thetubeguy1954 14:25:54 12/14/06 (0)
- Re: All audiophiles thought they had golden ears at one time - rick_m 11:05:30 12/12/06 (2)
- "blind testing is always an advantage" - Richard BassNut Greene 09:46:45 12/14/06 (1)
- Re: "blind testing is always an advantage" - rick_m 12:42:46 12/14/06 (0)
- Gross accusation across the board, bud. - cheap-Jack 13:49:41 12/11/06 (0)
- Well good, they're home safe and sound ... glad to be of service. I'll send the bill ... until next time. nt - bjh 18:47:33 12/10/06 (0)
- Re: DBT Proponents --- Where do they get their confidence? - TomLarson 12:02:07 12/09/06 (1)
- Re: DBT Proponents --- Where do they get their confidence? - bjh 12:16:15 12/09/06 (0)
- You've never been more wrong -- 180 degress away from reality this time ! So now I'm suspicious this is a set-up! - Richard BassNut Greene 12:20:08 12/09/06 (15)
- Hey dumb dumb, the issue is elementary statistics. Try to reign in your paranoia - bjh 12:25:41 12/09/06 (12)
- I completely refuted the statistics in my post (Leventhal confused 16 votes with 16 A-B comparisons and was WAY off - Richard BassNut Greene 12:34:27 12/09/06 (11)
- Slow down, breath deep, spit out the mud, and - bjh 12:37:49 12/09/06 (10)
- There was a Dave Clark (audio consultant) letter at Stereophile.com thoroughly refuting Leventhal's anti-ABX nonsense - Richard BassNut Greene 12:42:25 12/09/06 (9)
- I'm starting to fell more than a little guilty ... - bjh 14:06:03 12/09/06 (8)
- A summary of Les Leventhal (his errors about blind tests ... and his attacks on sighted listening bias that you ignored) - Richard BassNut Greene 08:26:34 12/11/06 (6)
- Guess you were hoping I wouldn't be back to respond ... - bjh 10:21:03 12/11/06 (5)
- You're back and clueless as usual. Type 2 errors still are not possible. - Richard BassNut Greene 10:27:13 12/11/06 (4)
- More nonsense. Type II errors are always present if you use a sample. - Norm 07:51:21 12/14/06 (3)
- If you do not try to prove two components sound the same, then a false conclusion that they do is impossible. - Richard BassNut Greene 09:58:39 12/14/06 (2)
- I used to think you knew something about research design. nt - Norm 07:10:34 12/15/06 (0)
- Keep working it Richard, soon you'll manage to make the Type I errors evaporate as well ... Perfect DBTs Forever. LOL nt - bjh 19:10:24 12/14/06 (0)
- Re: I'm starting to fell more than a little guilty ... - Pat D 15:11:04 12/09/06 (0)
- Kinda sad you have to use make believe to support your beliefs - Analog Scott 14:50:19 12/09/06 (1)
- Re: Kinda sad you have to use make believe to support your beliefs - john curl 19:42:36 12/13/06 (0)
- Where do they get their confidence (from Science) - tomservo 14:11:07 12/09/06 (142)
- You didn't rephrase my question, you asked a different question. - bjh 14:43:22 12/09/06 (2)
- Re: You didn't rephrase my question, you asked a different question. - tomservo 16:29:20 12/09/06 (1)
- Again, if you'd like to address my question.... As for your's ... go start yer own thread for goodness sake! nt - bjh 17:21:24 12/09/06 (0)
- From science? Were that only true. - Analog Scott 14:47:15 12/09/06 (126)
- Re: From science? Were that only true. - andy19191 02:51:40 12/11/06 (73)
- I agree that it isn't a scientific research topic - Analog Scott 17:32:47 12/11/06 (72)
- Re: I agree that it isn't a scientific research topic - andy19191 00:34:11 12/12/06 (71)
- Re: I agree that it isn't a scientific research topic - Analog Scott 07:18:40 12/12/06 (70)
- Re: I agree that it isn't a scientific research topic - andy19191 09:38:55 12/12/06 (69)
- You are free to suggest/believe what ever you want - Analog Scott 12:41:05 12/12/06 (68)
- Re: You are free to suggest/believe what ever you want - andy19191 06:06:41 12/13/06 (67)
- audibility is not a technical topic - Analog Scott 13:22:06 12/13/06 (66)
- Re: audibility is not a technical topic - andy19191 02:19:06 12/14/06 (0)
- ROTFLOL!! Errr . . . . it's part of pyschoacoustics. - Pat D 13:48:50 12/13/06 (64)
- Sorry you didn't understand the point - Analog Scott 17:25:27 12/13/06 (63)
- Perception isn't the issue, but detection. - Pat D 19:26:01 12/13/06 (62)
- No perception is the issue. What else is there in the end in audio? nt - Analog Scott 20:07:53 12/13/06 (61)
- But how do you establish what you perceive is due to the equipment? - Pat D 05:51:12 12/14/06 (60)
- Why do I need to establish what I perceive is due to the equipment? - Analog Scott 00:05:06 12/16/06 (24)
- You don't! Ah, so many confusions . . . - Pat D 09:27:03 12/16/06 (23)
- You do seem to be quite confused - Analog Scott 10:22:37 12/16/06 (22)
- Ahh, here's the guy who set out to "expose" me! Reduced to muttering epigrams . . . - Pat D 10:59:12 12/16/06 (21)
- You have been exposed even if you don't see it... - Analog Scott 16:37:19 12/16/06 (20)
- In your dreams, maybe . . . - Pat D 18:45:43 12/16/06 (19)
- No, it is clear to anyone who wants to read this thread - Analog Scott 19:04:33 12/16/06 (18)
- I have no obligation to defend things you make up for me. (nt) - Pat D 21:09:42 12/16/06 (17)
- prove that I am making things up? - Analog Scott 12:00:28 12/17/06 (16)
- Child's play, my son. - Pat D 18:26:39 12/17/06 (15)
- And yet you fail to do so - Analog Scott 21:39:06 12/17/06 (14)
- The "failure" is your failure to provide evidence for your allegations. (nt) - Pat D 06:57:30 12/18/06 (13)
- Wrong again. You are the one failing to provide any evidence for your assertions - Analog Scott 09:34:06 12/18/06 (12)
- John Clease is a comedian, isn't he? - Pat D 17:54:56 12/18/06 (11)
- You are just catching on? - Analog Scott 20:41:03 12/18/06 (10)
- I have known for some time you haven't been interested in carrying on an honest discussion. - Pat D 20:53:04 12/18/06 (9)
- Only when it became clear you were not interested in an honest discussion - Analog Scott 21:28:46 12/18/06 (8)
- Did you ever meet Echo? (nt) - Pat D 05:38:34 12/19/06 (7)
- Thank you for finally conceding my point. - Analog Scott 22:33:47 12/19/06 (6)
- You had a point? And how are you and Echo getting along? (nt) - Pat D 23:09:10 12/19/06 (5)
- Sorry you lack the smarts to understand what is being said - Analog Scott 22:12:48 12/20/06 (4)
- I do have the smarts to realize one can't prove the null hypothesis. - Pat D 07:08:54 12/21/06 (3)
- You don't have the smarts to understnad what is being said though. So how - Analog Scott 15:15:13 12/22/06 (2)
- Are you trying to see how far off the screen we can get this thread to go? (nt) - Pat D 18:02:49 12/23/06 (1)
- No. Are you? - Analog Scott 09:04:08 12/24/06 (0)
- Bowing At The JJ Alter Pat? - thetubeguy1954 07:57:01 12/14/06 (34)
- jj is a world-class expert in audio DBTs. - Pat D 08:55:44 12/14/06 (33)
- He also doesn't insist that audiophiles do DBTs nt - Analog Scott 00:06:21 12/16/06 (24)
- Neither do I. - Pat D 09:58:16 12/16/06 (23)
- LOL - Analog Scott 11:47:11 12/16/06 (22)
- I have no obligation to defend figments of your imagination. (nt) - Pat D 21:05:43 12/16/06 (21)
- You are the one imagining things - Analog Scott 12:01:43 12/17/06 (20)
- I'm not imagining this post full of false statements about me. - Pat D 18:35:47 12/17/06 (19)
- You are imagining a great deal. - Analog Scott 21:40:46 12/17/06 (18)
- Have you no shame, sir? - Pat D 06:10:44 12/18/06 (17)
- Have you no shame? You can't even cite one quote where I say anything untrue about you - Analog Scott 09:35:30 12/18/06 (16)
- Where have I said you quoted me? Come on laddie! - Pat D 17:48:46 12/18/06 (9)
- why are you asking yet another irrelevant question? - Analog Scott 20:42:26 12/18/06 (8)
- You brought up the suject of quotations my son. So you now admit bringing up irrelevancies. (nt) - Pat D 20:49:35 12/18/06 (7)
- No I did not bring up the topic of quotations per se - Analog Scott 21:30:49 12/18/06 (6)
- Ah yes, more examples of good old Honest Analog Scott! - Pat D 05:41:21 12/19/06 (5)
- Thank you for finally admitting I was the honest one. nt - Analog Scott 22:35:10 12/19/06 (4)
- Irony is lost on you. (nt) - Pat D 23:11:10 12/19/06 (3)
- If that were true you wouldn't be so amusing to me - Analog Scott 22:14:01 12/20/06 (2)
- Yeah, I know. To amuse yourself you are willing to say anything, true or untrue. (nt) - Pat D 18:04:52 12/21/06 (1)
- Wrong again - Analog Scott 15:16:26 12/22/06 (0)
- Re: Have you no shame? You can't even cite one quote where I say anything untrue about you - thetubeguy1954 13:59:59 12/18/06 (5)
- I'm glad to see you are starting to admit your shortcomings, Tom. - Pat D 17:52:07 12/18/06 (4)
- You Keep Proving I'm Correct About You Pat - thetubeguy1954 07:35:58 12/19/06 (3)
- Is this like where you tell us what you *would* hear in a DBT if you actually did one? - Pat D 07:52:56 12/19/06 (2)
- No This Is Where You Change The Topic As Usual - thetubeguy1954 14:09:36 12/19/06 (1)
- No, you just make empty promises. 9nt) - Pat D 14:59:56 12/19/06 (0)
- In Your OPINION That Is... - thetubeguy1954 08:52:33 12/15/06 (2)
- And oh yeah...jj is a Fellow of the AES. - Pat D 10:52:15 12/15/06 (0)
- You really must learn about 'some' and 'every' . . . - Pat D 10:49:18 12/15/06 (0)
- JJ, the guy who had a penchant for demanding apologies (seemed like every other post), - bjh 04:37:20 12/15/06 (4)
- Were you one of those attacking his professional qualifications, and then refusing to apologize? - Pat D 07:22:22 12/15/06 (3)
- "Felony"! Woah!, talk about drama! Oh I guess a little sympathy is called for, after all ... - bjh 07:47:09 12/15/06 (2)
- You might look up the word "metaphor." - Pat D 07:57:48 12/15/06 (1)
- Pest _nt - bjh 09:34:41 12/15/06 (0)
- Maybe for some bad science is better than no science! Imagine that - bjh 14:50:46 12/09/06 (51)
- Yes and just to push an agenda. The sad thing is - Analog Scott 14:57:27 12/09/06 (50)
- What "agenda" is that? - Pat D 10:09:58 12/10/06 (49)
- The age old agenda about so many things sounding the same - Analog Scott 11:26:07 12/10/06 (48)
- Nope. We just want good methodology. - Pat D 13:04:24 12/10/06 (47)
- I think the vocal objectivists want a double standard - Analog Scott 13:47:19 12/10/06 (46)
- Analog Scott Give Up Pat D Is An Audio Politician - thetubeguy1954 14:14:32 12/11/06 (36)
- Why didn't you quote the last line of my post? - Pat D 03:14:05 12/12/06 (2)
- Re: Why didn't you quote the last line of my post? - thetubeguy1954 05:47:37 12/12/06 (1)
- Re: Why didn't you quote the last line of my post? - Pat D 05:56:07 12/12/06 (0)
- I agree with you in part. - Analog Scott 17:38:08 12/11/06 (32)
- Re: I agree with you in part. - thetubeguy1954 14:17:35 12/12/06 (30)
- But you did win. - Analog Scott 14:26:58 12/12/06 (29)
- And what is this "audio politics?" - Pat D 16:37:50 12/12/06 (28)
- This Is A PERFECT Example Of "Audio Politics?" - thetubeguy1954 07:19:49 12/13/06 (27)
- Dear me! I thought this was an audio discussion forum devoted to technical matters. - Pat D 07:51:38 12/13/06 (26)
- Another Audio Politican Post (Analog Scott Read This) - thetubeguy1954 12:49:37 12/13/06 (25)
- Short questionnaire - Pat D 13:21:25 12/13/06 (24)
- I have already addressed the double standard - Analog Scott 20:32:43 12/13/06 (23)
- Analog Scott This Is Just More Pat D Audio Politics In Action. - thetubeguy1954 07:20:51 12/14/06 (7)
- Man! You'll do anything to avoid proving your audio claims! - Pat D 12:17:37 12/14/06 (6)
- It's Impossibel Prove Them To An Audio Politican Like You Pat - thetubeguy1954 06:58:10 12/15/06 (5)
- See what I mean? TG54 continues to not prove his claims! (nt) - Pat D 07:42:37 12/15/06 (4)
- See what I mean? Pat D-Cake Continues To Audio Politician !(nt) - thetubeguy1954 08:56:02 12/15/06 (3)
- If only someone could explain what "audio politician" means . . . - Pat D 13:25:09 12/15/06 (2)
- I gave you Bunburyist above - kerr 13:53:30 12/15/06 (1)
- Re: I gave you Bunburyist above - Pat D 15:42:41 12/15/06 (0)
- No, you haven't. You just made up a straw man 'belief' for me.. - Pat D 06:10:35 12/14/06 (14)
- Yes I have. nt - Analog Scott 00:08:07 12/16/06 (13)
- I'm glad to see you finally admit it. - Pat D 11:12:14 12/16/06 (12)
- That I have addressed any relevant questions about your double standards? I admitted that a long time ago - Analog Scott 19:07:05 12/16/06 (11)
- I have no obligation to defend positions I don't hold. (nt) - Pat D 21:01:12 12/16/06 (10)
- You do hold them though. - Analog Scott 12:03:00 12/17/06 (9)
- "can't deal " with what, my son? I certainly can deal with your false statements about me. - Pat D 18:31:54 12/17/06 (8)
- Such as? - Analog Scott 21:42:26 12/17/06 (7)
- You make a lot of false statement about what my opinions are but provide no evidence. See link. - Pat D 20:37:55 12/18/06 (3)
- Failure to support your ridiculous alegations noted a second time.. - Analog Scott 20:43:45 12/18/06 (2)
- Is "alegation" a sort of energy drink? (nt) - Pat D 20:57:19 12/18/06 (1)
- No just a spelling error. something anyone with any smarts would see - Analog Scott 21:32:32 12/18/06 (0)
- Failure to support your false alegations against me is duly noted. nt - Analog Scott 09:37:12 12/18/06 (2)
- I thought "alegation" was a kind of sports drink. (nt) - Pat D 20:42:38 12/18/06 (1)
- That makes sense givn what you think about audio and fair conversations. - Analog Scott 21:34:21 12/18/06 (0)
- So, you guys want to make up opinions and attribute them to me. - Pat D 02:37:38 12/12/06 (0)
- Again, what are so-called objectivist's "assertions on what is and is not audible "? - Pat D 16:46:18 12/10/06 (8)
- Love your scenario - kerr 04:56:15 12/12/06 (5)
- Re: Love your scenario - Pat D 16:48:22 12/12/06 (4)
- Re: Love your scenario - kerr 04:18:07 12/13/06 (3)
- Re: Love your scenario - Pat D 16:14:35 12/13/06 (2)
- Re: Love your scenario - kerr 04:53:15 12/14/06 (1)
- Re: Love your scenario - Pat D 20:58:50 12/14/06 (0)
- I suggest you read your own previous post and look for your own assertions - Analog Scott 19:09:03 12/10/06 (1)
- You'll have to come up with something more specific. - Pat D 05:40:40 12/11/06 (0)
- More claims of omniscience - John Atkinson 17:26:28 12/09/06 (10)
- Re: No claims of omniscience - tomservo 19:06:25 12/09/06 (9)
- Sigh... - John Atkinson 07:54:07 12/10/06 (8)
- Re: Sigh... - Steve Eddy 09:51:19 12/10/06 (0)
- Re: Sigh... - tomservo 12:06:02 12/10/06 (6)
- SH-50 question - Steve Eddy 19:39:29 12/10/06 (5)
- Re: SH-50 question - tomservo 10:06:18 12/11/06 (4)
- Re: SH-50 question - AJinFLA 03:36:47 12/12/06 (2)
- Re: SH-50 question - tomservo 18:43:07 12/12/06 (1)
- Re: SH-50 question - AJinFLA 13:17:56 12/13/06 (0)
- Re: SH-50 question - Steve Eddy 22:14:56 12/11/06 (0)
- The Audio Critic MFSL amp review - Atexanathome 10:26:29 12/10/06 (0)
- Like Mr. Nut, they have Tin Ears... - mkuller 14:59:58 12/09/06 (7)
- Children resort to insults when they have nothing intelligent to say -- I guess some adults too? - Richard BassNut Greene 08:31:46 12/11/06 (6)
- Just because yer mom dresses ya funny doesn't mean I have nothing intelligent to say - kerr 05:22:41 12/12/06 (5)
- because so many expensive stereos don't sound very good - Richard BassNut Greene 09:56:03 12/12/06 (4)
- I always suspected your motives were purely altruistic... - mkuller 18:24:38 12/13/06 (0)
- Re: because so many expensive stereos don't sound very good - kerr 12:31:40 12/12/06 (2)
- Progress has nearly stalled with vinyl, tube two-channel audio that was obsolete a decade ago - Richard BassNut Greene 10:15:28 12/14/06 (1)
- Again with your outrageous unproven Golden Eared claims... - mkuller 12:49:02 12/14/06 (0)
- Straw man. - Pat D 15:24:09 12/09/06 (13)
- "You will note that Leventhal's calculations of the probabilities of Type II errors depend on arbitrary assumptions." - bjh 15:37:55 12/09/06 (5)
- Type 2 errors are not possible with blind tests. Leventhal was completely wrong about Type 2 errors which do not exist! - Richard BassNut Greene 08:44:44 12/11/06 (1)
- Re: Type 2 errors are not possible with blind tests. Leventhal was completely wrong about Type 2 errors which do not ex - andy19191 01:56:55 12/12/06 (0)
- Re: "You will note that Leventhal's calculations of the probabilities of Type II errors depend on arbitrary assumptions. - Pat D 15:50:26 12/09/06 (2)
- Enough BS ... consider yourself ignored. nt - bjh 16:15:24 12/09/06 (1)
- Can't understand the issues, eh? - Pat D 19:36:22 12/09/06 (0)
- Re: Straw man. - regmac 09:00:44 12/10/06 (6)
- Re: Straw man. - Pat D 09:56:39 12/10/06 (4)
- Or not..... - Sordidman 16:06:24 12/10/06 (3)
- Re: Or not..... - Pat D 16:54:44 12/10/06 (2)
- Oh, You, me, and everyone else, doesn't live in a literal world.... - Sordidman 23:02:17 12/10/06 (1)
- Re: Oh, You, me, and everyone else, doesn't live in a literal world.... - Pat D 11:47:15 12/13/06 (0)
- Speculation? My speculation is different....... - Sordidman 15:41:51 12/10/06 (0)
- THANKFULLY this s a DBT free zone - hifitommy 17:11:45 12/09/06 (1)
- I Think That Only Applies to Cable Asylum.... - Todd Krieger 12:01:12 12/12/06 (0)
- Re: DBT Proponents --- Where do they get their confidence? - tomservo 19:28:04 12/09/06 (2)
- The real crux of the DBT problem. - thetubeguy1954 11:41:04 12/15/06 (0)
- Good answer! Certainly the basic premise is indisputable. - bjh 23:19:40 12/09/06 (0)
- Simple concept really. What about Toole's work?? - Robert Hamel 19:44:24 12/09/06 (1)
- The reason not to cite toole's work is because - Analog Scott 12:23:49 12/10/06 (0)
- Re: DBT Proponents --- Where do they get their confidence? - andy19191 08:44:50 12/10/06 (7)
- OMG! Does not one else notice the raging Pat-D-cake epidemic? - bjh 09:29:55 12/10/06 (6)
- You're question is very undefined: confidence in *what*? - Pat D 10:15:34 12/10/06 (0)
- Re: OMG! Does not one else notice the raging Pat-D-cake epidemic? - andy19191 11:54:47 12/10/06 (4)
- "He has pointed out flaws in your arguments ..." - bjh 12:33:13 12/10/06 (3)
- Re: "He has pointed out flaws in your arguments ..." - Pat D 13:14:03 12/10/06 (2)
- "I have not said that statistical his analysis is invalidated" I know that Pat, you never *say* anything ... - bjh 10:37:11 12/11/06 (1)
- You whine even when I say the same thing Leventhal does . . . - Pat D 11:25:21 12/13/06 (0)
Follow Ups
- I agree Norm. There's great humor in audio..... - Don T 07:50:36 12/14/06 (0)
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