|
Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
|
|
|
Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
|
In Reply to: Re: Straw man. posted by regmac on December 10, 2006 at 09:00:44:
You could just ask people.....This whole subjectivist vs. objectivist is silly to me as there are no objectivists. Some folks here are "naysayers" which is different.
According to John Dewey, - we cannot "bracket out" all of our biases. We are biased. And, - we are dealing with artisan products. Now, - some people may claim that a music playback component is not art, - but there are manufacturers who call their components art. Once they do this, we must conclude that they are indeed artists. WHY? Because there is no universalizable definition of art. If someone deficates on the sidewalk and calls it art, - we must accept them as an artist. We can call them a BAD artist. Or we can say that it is not art for ME, (I want to narrow my definition to include only impressionist painters), - but it is still art. Yes, - we can attach our own unique "goodness" and "badness" qualities to things.
Ever see the Phoenix speaker? Goodness that thing is ugly in my opinion. Others find it gorgeous, - a robot-like-alien horn thing?? I don't know: is all that utility? I don't think so...
Take the guys who built the Rogue Tempest and the other guy who designed and built the Krell KAV300i. Pump those amps through the same $4K plus speakers that are reasonably detailed and one will hear a substantially different presentation. One has really tight, well defined in space, punchy, bass and an overall punchy agressive presentation. The other does not.... These two manufacturers OBVIOUSLY have different takes on what makes good sound. Or they OBVIOUSLY have two different takes on what makes neutral sound. Has anybody ever defined the words "neutral" and "accurate" so that everyone would agree? Or, is one of those guys screwing up? Did one make a mistake with their amp? It doesn't take "golden ears" to recognize the substantial disparity in the two pieces. What it does take is some kind of test. Do those two amps measure the same? NO WAY!!!
What a naysayer says is, "you don't test" you're getting ripped off because you listen to products." Well listening to products and comparing them IS A TEST!!! One may think that it's a bad test, - but it's still a test. Why can't the naysayers just say that they have STRICTER testing standards? I have done blind tests, and I can tell you that I'm happy to do a blind test with the Rogue and Krell. I can pick out which one is which EVERY TIME. Now if you introduce 5 more amps in there and some sound like the Krell and some sound like the Rogue, - I'm not going to be able identify which is the Rogue Tempest made in 2003 with a particular amount of time on the KT88, - that's called making the test two hard. Again, - we're listening for differences, - not drilling down to the point of unreasonable absurdity.....
We can never be completely objective, - we can try, - use controls, blind testing, super accurate SPL meters, etc. etc. etc.... But at the end of the day, - we're here to listen to music, and enjoy are music for pleasure. We're not here to find the least THD amp at the best price, - well at least some of us aren't. My point is that even the most staunch objectivist/naysayer walks into the test saying: "audio gear is too expensive for what it delivers, I've only ever heard or read of tests that prove that the most expensive gear is only marginally, or barely, different in sound and therefore is not worth the price that one pays."
Going into tests with such preconceptions, or putting up unreasonable standards in the test is fine by me. Have at it..... But don't try to say that because the naysayer uses and advocates these kinds of strict testing standards that I don't hear what I hear. Or, because this person thinks that differences, if any, aren't worth it to him, that they're not worth it to me. Besides, - why would anyone care what I put on my living room floor? I don't really care for a lot of Impressionist paintings, - but I have one in my living room that a friend painted for me. I like HIS particular Impressionist painting; the trees are nice.
yeah, I got a wooden, purple heart face plate on my amp. Does it help the sound, - probably not at all... no, not at all.. But I think that it looks pretty. Yep, - cost me some extra dough, - but it was worth it to me.
WE LISTEN TO OUR STEREOS, - hopefully. We can go through all kinds of testing, but at the end of day, hopefully, we buy stuff that sounds good to us. Maybe people think that everything sounds good, or maybe they think that everything sounds the same, so they only go buy something that measures well. If people think that they are getting themselves a much better, safer, cheaper, stereo by going through a myriad of testing procedures, then have others measure the equipment. Then read at least 5 positive measurement results, then hooray!!! I'm happy for them.
My question is, why judge me? Why call me a liar?
Thoughts from above hit the people down below. There are people in this world who have no place to go
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Follow Ups
- Speculation? My speculation is different....... - Sordidman 15:41:51 12/10/06 (0)
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
