In Reply to: The age old agenda about so many things sounding the same posted by Analog Scott on December 10, 2006 at 11:26:07:
Sorry, most of us have no particular agenda as to how equipment sounds.Let's take the alledged beliefs you cite:
"Amplifiers sounding the same [some amplifiers sound different]
CD players sounding the same [some few actually do sound different]
CD playback perfection [prove people can detect the difference between the source and the CD in playback]
All cables sounding the same [some cables do sound different under some circumstances.]
"Tweaks" are snake oil" [some tweaks work]Where do we make such claims? You are overgeneralizing. In fact, instances can be found in which such claims have been proven not to be true. So no, we wouldn't accept such universal propositions. I think you have been reading our opponents formulation of our opinions, which is itself bad methodology. Peter Aczel might make some such claims, but the objection is fairly trivial. First, such claims are merely the null hypothesis, which cannot be absolutely proven. Second, Aczel would have to modify such assertions if proper evidence was found.
You misunderstand the concept of burden of proof. You can have all the "subjective beliefs" you want, but we simply point out that if there is any proof to be done, it's up to those making the claims. You don't have to prove them if you don't want to. But if someone claims that some expensive speaker wire sounds different from, say, 12 gauge speaker wire from the hardward store, that is a testable claim and there is no reason for anyone to believe the claim without some good evidence. If you want to make unlikely claims but don't want to prove them, don't complain when somebody points out said claims have not been proven.
Because you wrote about saying what is audible and what is not, I specifically asked you what objection you had to proving something IS audible, and you have said, "None." Despite what some have tried to say (mkuller), some DBTs have had positive results.
"Please show me any peer reviewed published scientific research that proves amps sound the same or CD players sound the same or that CD playback is transparent in practice or that all cables sound the same."
It is easier to prove two things are different than to prove two things are the same (outside of mathematics). Just how would you propose to prove a difference is inaudible using statistics?
"Please show me the *legitimate* science that supports the objectivists assertions on audibility."
You have misunderstood what those assertions are. Also, it seems you want some to justify their assertions on audibility but do not demand that subjectivists support their assertions on audibility. You are hardly being consistent here.
"I DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE MY SUBJECTIVE IMPRESSIONS OF MY AESTHETIC EXPERIENCES ARR SCIENTIFICALLY VALID.Period."
Who is asking you to validate your subjective impressions or aesthetic experiences? You may have many different aesthetic experiences even with the same object. We are talking about detection of differences.
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Follow Ups
- Nope. We just want good methodology. - Pat D 13:04:24 12/10/06 (47)
- I think the vocal objectivists want a double standard - Analog Scott 13:47:19 12/10/06 (46)
- Analog Scott Give Up Pat D Is An Audio Politician - thetubeguy1954 14:14:32 12/11/06 (36)
- Why didn't you quote the last line of my post? - Pat D 03:14:05 12/12/06 (2)
- Re: Why didn't you quote the last line of my post? - thetubeguy1954 05:47:37 12/12/06 (1)
- Re: Why didn't you quote the last line of my post? - Pat D 05:56:07 12/12/06 (0)
- I agree with you in part. - Analog Scott 17:38:08 12/11/06 (32)
- Re: I agree with you in part. - thetubeguy1954 14:17:35 12/12/06 (30)
- But you did win. - Analog Scott 14:26:58 12/12/06 (29)
- And what is this "audio politics?" - Pat D 16:37:50 12/12/06 (28)
- This Is A PERFECT Example Of "Audio Politics?" - thetubeguy1954 07:19:49 12/13/06 (27)
- Dear me! I thought this was an audio discussion forum devoted to technical matters. - Pat D 07:51:38 12/13/06 (26)
- Another Audio Politican Post (Analog Scott Read This) - thetubeguy1954 12:49:37 12/13/06 (25)
- Short questionnaire - Pat D 13:21:25 12/13/06 (24)
- I have already addressed the double standard - Analog Scott 20:32:43 12/13/06 (23)
- Analog Scott This Is Just More Pat D Audio Politics In Action. - thetubeguy1954 07:20:51 12/14/06 (7)
- Man! You'll do anything to avoid proving your audio claims! - Pat D 12:17:37 12/14/06 (6)
- It's Impossibel Prove Them To An Audio Politican Like You Pat - thetubeguy1954 06:58:10 12/15/06 (5)
- See what I mean? TG54 continues to not prove his claims! (nt) - Pat D 07:42:37 12/15/06 (4)
- See what I mean? Pat D-Cake Continues To Audio Politician !(nt) - thetubeguy1954 08:56:02 12/15/06 (3)
- If only someone could explain what "audio politician" means . . . - Pat D 13:25:09 12/15/06 (2)
- I gave you Bunburyist above - kerr 13:53:30 12/15/06 (1)
- Re: I gave you Bunburyist above - Pat D 15:42:41 12/15/06 (0)
- No, you haven't. You just made up a straw man 'belief' for me.. - Pat D 06:10:35 12/14/06 (14)
- Yes I have. nt - Analog Scott 00:08:07 12/16/06 (13)
- I'm glad to see you finally admit it. - Pat D 11:12:14 12/16/06 (12)
- That I have addressed any relevant questions about your double standards? I admitted that a long time ago - Analog Scott 19:07:05 12/16/06 (11)
- I have no obligation to defend positions I don't hold. (nt) - Pat D 21:01:12 12/16/06 (10)
- You do hold them though. - Analog Scott 12:03:00 12/17/06 (9)
- "can't deal " with what, my son? I certainly can deal with your false statements about me. - Pat D 18:31:54 12/17/06 (8)
- Such as? - Analog Scott 21:42:26 12/17/06 (7)
- You make a lot of false statement about what my opinions are but provide no evidence. See link. - Pat D 20:37:55 12/18/06 (3)
- Failure to support your ridiculous alegations noted a second time.. - Analog Scott 20:43:45 12/18/06 (2)
- Is "alegation" a sort of energy drink? (nt) - Pat D 20:57:19 12/18/06 (1)
- No just a spelling error. something anyone with any smarts would see - Analog Scott 21:32:32 12/18/06 (0)
- Failure to support your false alegations against me is duly noted. nt - Analog Scott 09:37:12 12/18/06 (2)
- I thought "alegation" was a kind of sports drink. (nt) - Pat D 20:42:38 12/18/06 (1)
- That makes sense givn what you think about audio and fair conversations. - Analog Scott 21:34:21 12/18/06 (0)
- So, you guys want to make up opinions and attribute them to me. - Pat D 02:37:38 12/12/06 (0)
- Again, what are so-called objectivist's "assertions on what is and is not audible "? - Pat D 16:46:18 12/10/06 (8)
- Love your scenario - kerr 04:56:15 12/12/06 (5)
- Re: Love your scenario - Pat D 16:48:22 12/12/06 (4)
- Re: Love your scenario - kerr 04:18:07 12/13/06 (3)
- Re: Love your scenario - Pat D 16:14:35 12/13/06 (2)
- Re: Love your scenario - kerr 04:53:15 12/14/06 (1)
- Re: Love your scenario - Pat D 20:58:50 12/14/06 (0)
- I suggest you read your own previous post and look for your own assertions - Analog Scott 19:09:03 12/10/06 (1)
- You'll have to come up with something more specific. - Pat D 05:40:40 12/11/06 (0)