Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics.

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I'll Attempt To Explain

Posted by thetubeguy1954 (A) on November 13, 2006 at 11:09:38

In Reply to: I don't get it Tom? posted by Don T on November 11, 2006 at 13:45:35:

Ok Don even though you're attempting to start an arguement via ridiculing, berating or disparaging I'll attempt to civily explain what you say don't get, ok?

If I ridiculed anyone's past comments about finding "good sound" from low priced CD players that don't imploy the latest up/over sampling technologies, it wasn't due to their non-use of the latest up/over sampling technologies. Instead my comments were made because I've personally not yet heard a low-priced CD player that sounds "good." That is, if good means to you, like it does to me, that the CDP replicates music that sounds like live umamplified instruments should.

When you implied that it was due to the CDP being expensive, that embolden me tp pronounce they "sound good" you are sadly mistaken. If you read my post with an open mind you should have noticed I specifically stated: "Others here would say the SET amps are just adding euphonic colorations to the music. Personally I don't care which side or POV you hold. In my house I only have to please myself and my ears. So far IMHO SETs do that better than any other amplifier technology I've ever heard. But because of the: "it sounds more realistic, not it doesn't' it's euphonic colored" back and forth arguement that never goes anywhere but endless repitions of it sounds more realistic, not it's euphonic colored. I looked around for another example of this type of measure poorly yet replicate live music more realistically audio component and found it! Or at least I believe I have..."

So Don you should have noticed this was not an exercise in looking for another expensive audio component on my part. Rather it was an attempt to find another type of audio component, that like SET's do, usually measure poorly but sound "good" i.e. it replicates music that sounds like live umamplified instruments should! Although the Zanden uses tubes some of the Kusunoki-style DACs don't! As I was very much trying to remove --tubes are euphonically coloring the music-- from the arguement/debate of how can an audio component measure poorly yet replicate music well? These components fit the bill precisely in that regard.

Now Don when you say I must be just as confused as what "measures well" means as are the rest of them. I'd like to know just exactly who "the rest of them" are? But as was typical of you in the past you start berating me by claiming, "Because if (I) had a clue (I'd) know it's the definition of what "measures well" and what is measured that defines how a system is designed/intended to work." Don you make this mistaken claim as if you honestly do or don't know what I know and believe. I love SETs as you well know! I've long since been a proponent of one CANNOT evaluate a system's performance based on a set of parameters! This is precisely why I love SET's which measure poorly, yet replicate music that sound more like live music than any other amp technology I've ever heard. It's because I know that measurements may or may not correlate with how the ear/brain combo interpets what is and isn't live music. Your only making my arguement for me. Don the reality is "IF" anyone's ire has been irked it's yours, not mine.

Part of the problem Don is you came into this discussion on 11/11/06 four days after it was started. If you had read through the entire thread before responding or at least before criticizing me you'd have noticed I said on 11/09/06 two days before your reply, to tomservo "As I said before I know some specifications & measurements play a part in how well an audio component replicates music, that's given. I'm NOT anti-science. I believe there are other factors to be considered when the human ear/brain combo is used as the reference standard in determining what "sounds" like live music and what doesn't, as opposed to test machines. What it should come down to is a combination of those measurements taken via test equipment that we know directly correlate to how well a component replicates music and what we discover needs to be measured if/when anyone takes the time to learn how the ear/brain combo determines what does and doesn't "sound" like live music! Like most any other topic discussed in audio, the truth lies neither in the Obj or Subj POV, but rather somewhere close to the middle of those." So Don had you read through the thread you'd have known that I know there doesn't exist any set of measurements that fully defines the performance of either the systems I like best, or any other audio system for that matter.

Finally Don as to these your negative attacks of yours about my comments of...

1) These are MY beliefs. Don I specifically state these are my beliefs so they won't be misinterpeted as my claiming my statements are facts! They're not, they're only my opinions or beliefs. Also for someone who claims "...most of us audiophiles have been using our own ears to chose are components for years." IIRC you asked me many a time about DBT's in the past. That's hardly the postion of one who uses their ear as the final arbitrator, at least that's my belief!

2) I don't require or ask that anyone else agree with them. Don how did you come to the assinine conclusion that because I don't ask or require others agree with my opinion, I feel I'm special or different amongst audiophiles? It appears YOU are the one who came to the erroneous belief that I am special or different amongst audiophiles, not me! If you hadn't why would you believe I feel that way? I never said I was special or different than any other music lover.

3) I'm postive scientists will one day prove me correct! To that comment you, Don T replied: One day you may be learn to correlate your preferences with measurements and then you can ride the same high horse of the objectivists you clearly despise. This is just another assinine assumption on your part Don. Perhaps you should attempt the astounding event of reading through the post and replies that came well before yours and your many incorrect assumptions, before replying, huh?

I can see you're back to being the arrogant, Don T of old. You're hardly addressing the topic at hand. When you do you either misrepresent or misunderstand my POV and beliefs entirely. I think perhaps it's your "envy" of my ability to discuss a topic intelligently with others without needing to resort to the need to belittle, berate, insult or desparge them or their beliefs, because we have opposing POVs? In fact what you called a "rant" on my behalf, another here (tomservo) thought was excellent discussion!

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/25585.html

Don T I'll also inform you that I no longer belittle, berate, insult or desparge people or their choices in audio components. If your/their system makes you/them happy, so be it. It doesn't effect me, just like my choices in components don't effect you. I'm tired of the endless Obj vs Subj sounds good, no it euphonically colored arguements. If/when you choose to have an intelligent debate/discussion without resorting to the need to belittle, berate, insult or desparge me or my choices in audio components, I'll respond in like kind to you. If not consider this post our last communication.

You'll have to take that type of childish behavior elsewere I have much better things to do with me time, than argue with the likes of you if that's how you wish to communicate!

Bye Bye --- Thetubeguy1954

It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows. - Epictetus

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