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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: Re: Indeed. - Links to PDFs posted by macaque on November 19, 2005 at 07:14:25:
Based on the graphic in Figure 1.3 of the Wannamaker article, it looks like "subtractive dither" is a dithered quantized (digitized) signal mixed with the inverted non-quantized (*analog*) dither noise.So in reality, the only way "subtractive dither" could be utilized is in playback where the conversion is to shorter wordlengths, with active dither applied both before truncation and after conversion. (The noise after conversion inverted.) It could *not* be utilized in standard CD or MP3 playback because the media itself would require additional *analog* tracks to store the inverted dither noise.
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - An actual technical post/question, just for a change of pace.... - Commuteman 10:43:24 11/08/05 (173)
- For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - Mark Kelly 18:39:46 11/14/05 (63)
- Umm I was wrong. - Mark Kelly 15:11:43 11/15/05 (0)
- Re: For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - macaque 10:35:32 11/15/05 (59)
- Goodness, Gracious! - Silver Eared John 11:14:38 11/15/05 (58)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 12:10:44 11/15/05 (6)
- Why, a lot of good questions... - Silver Eared John 12:37:37 11/15/05 (5)
- Re: Why, a lot of good questions... - macaque 14:12:20 11/15/05 (4)
- Re: Why, a lot of good questions - Silver Eared John 15:48:02 11/15/05 (3)
- jneutron has been talking about a much lower threshold - Commuteman 11:22:25 11/18/05 (2)
- Threshold for what? - Silver Eared John 13:52:13 11/18/05 (1)
- Just got inta town...what'chall talkin bout? - jneutron 09:32:17 11/21/05 (0)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 11:51:21 11/15/05 (6)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 12:03:38 11/15/05 (5)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 12:15:04 11/15/05 (4)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 14:18:35 11/15/05 (3)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 15:17:45 11/15/05 (2)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 10:39:29 11/17/05 (1)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 11:14:51 11/17/05 (0)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Tom Dawson 11:34:01 11/15/05 (43)
- Now y'all hold on. - Silver Eared John 12:18:54 11/15/05 (42)
- Re: Now y'all hold on. - Tom Dawson 14:03:27 11/15/05 (41)
- Now, y'all hold on there. - Silver Eared John 14:06:24 11/15/05 (40)
- Re: Now, y'all hold on there. - Tom Dawson 22:21:05 11/15/05 (5)
- No, that's not the worst case, guy - Silver Eared John 12:53:17 11/16/05 (4)
- 'Fraid it is. Your argument fails due to its absolute dependence on extremely long spectral timing averaging requirement - Tom Dawson 07:16:49 11/23/05 (3)
- Y'all say? Well, y'all say, but no, it's not true - Silver Eared John 20:58:53 11/24/05 (2)
- What do you not understand about the potential interchannel sampling timing error of a transition of arbitrary size? - Tom Dawson 22:00:29 11/24/05 (1)
- There ain't none, that's what I understand. - Silver Eared John 11:12:57 11/25/05 (0)
- Re: Now, y'all hold on there. - macaque 14:36:54 11/15/05 (33)
- No, no, no - Silver Eared John 15:54:32 11/15/05 (32)
- Re: No, no, no - macaque 14:17:55 11/16/05 (31)
- Y'all missing something important there. - Silver Eared John 15:45:24 11/16/05 (30)
- Re: Y'all missing something important there. - macaque 17:23:49 11/16/05 (29)
- Why not just listen, then look… - jcox 20:16:20 11/18/05 (0)
- No, there isn't. - Silver Eared John 18:52:24 11/16/05 (27)
- Re: No, there isn't. - macaque 05:17:23 11/17/05 (26)
- Re: No, there isn't. - Todd Krieger 20:33:06 11/17/05 (23)
- Oh, more mythology - Silver Eared John 22:42:19 11/17/05 (22)
- Oh Really?? - Todd Krieger 01:50:32 11/18/05 (21)
- You're full of it. - Silver Eared John 13:59:04 11/18/05 (0)
- Re: Oh Really?? - macaque 06:58:07 11/18/05 (19)
- Noise? - Silver Eared John 14:00:09 11/18/05 (11)
- Re: Noise? - macaque 14:57:55 11/18/05 (10)
- Indeed. - Silver Eared John 16:14:12 11/18/05 (9)
- Re: Indeed. - macaque 17:40:26 11/18/05 (8)
- Re: Indeed. - Todd Krieger 23:21:00 11/18/05 (7)
- Re: Indeed. - Links to PDFs - macaque 07:14:25 11/19/05 (3)
- Outstanding! Thanks. (nt) - andy_c 13:13:59 11/20/05 (0)
- Links to PDFs - Thanks..... - Todd Krieger 21:41:32 11/19/05 (1)
- Re: Links to PDFs - Thanks..... - macaque 09:19:26 11/21/05 (0)
- Goodness, gracious, and you're talking like an expert? - Silver Eared John 01:20:10 11/19/05 (2)
- Re: Goodness, gracious, and you're talking like an expert? - macaque 07:48:24 11/19/05 (1)
- Well, there are some issues, I'm sure. - Silver Eared John 10:42:34 11/19/05 (0)
- Re: Oh Really?? - Todd Krieger 09:56:19 11/18/05 (6)
- Re: Oh Really?? - macaque 10:50:34 11/18/05 (5)
- Bit depth vs.analog stuff - Silver Eared John 11:50:06 11/22/05 (3)
- Re: Bit depth vs.analog stuff - john curl 10:38:20 11/24/05 (2)
- Bull pucky, plain and simple. - Silver Eared John 11:15:44 11/25/05 (1)
- Re: Bull pucky, plain and simple. - john curl 11:26:08 11/25/05 (0)
- I Think You Got It.... - Todd Krieger 22:55:44 11/18/05 (0)
- Re: No, there isn't. - Silver Eared John 16:16:55 11/17/05 (0)
- Testing capability of extyracting correlated info from noise - Jacques 07:04:16 11/17/05 (0)
- Re: For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - Dan Banquer 05:50:28 11/15/05 (1)
- Re: For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - Todd Krieger 08:53:27 11/15/05 (0)
- Hi Cman. - jneutron 12:21:17 11/14/05 (3)
- Re: Hi Cman. - Steve Eddy 19:59:50 11/14/05 (1)
- Re: Hi Cman. - jneutron 06:52:55 11/15/05 (0)
- Re: Hi Cman. - Todd Krieger 17:11:06 11/14/05 (0)
- Wow, what's this? A real technical question. - Silver Eared John 15:20:50 11/10/05 (93)
- Re: Wow, what's this? A real technical question. - Tom Dawson 07:31:05 11/11/05 (5)
- Now, y'all, I was talking about dither, not noise shaping - Silver Eared John 11:55:38 11/11/05 (4)
- That's Like Saying.... - Todd Krieger 14:00:56 11/11/05 (3)
- You're out of your mind, chief... - Silver Eared John 14:21:18 11/11/05 (2)
- Re: You're out of your mind, chief... - Todd Krieger 15:50:57 11/11/05 (1)
- Y'all got any point beyond misteaching the technology, kid - Silver Eared John 16:00:11 11/11/05 (0)
- Re: Wow, what's this? A real technical question. - Todd Krieger 16:49:14 11/10/05 (60)
- Y'all need to learn about the frequency domain, lad. - Silver Eared John 19:02:17 11/10/05 (59)
- Re: Y'all need to learn about the frequency domain, lad. - Todd Krieger 22:24:14 11/10/05 (58)
- Y'all trying to shift attention, eh? - Silver Eared John 23:09:13 11/10/05 (57)
- Time's Up..... - Todd Krieger 23:55:21 11/10/05 (56)
- Y'all just had to butt in with misinformation, then, eh? - Silver Eared John 11:45:58 11/11/05 (55)
- Let The Readers Determine That.... - Todd Krieger 19:43:57 11/12/05 (54)
- It's not a popularity contest, slick - Silver Eared John 19:54:15 11/12/05 (53)
- If it was... - mkuller 17:13:58 11/13/05 (52)
- Well, y'all know - Silver Eared John 17:43:09 11/13/05 (51)
- well, consarn it all, ain't it the goldarndest confoundinest - tunenut 11:14:37 11/14/05 (0)
- Well, Curl is right, you know... - mkuller 10:51:39 11/14/05 (4)
- Oh Please! - Dan Banquer 11:03:43 11/14/05 (3)
- That's the facts, Jack... - mkuller 11:34:50 11/14/05 (2)
- Re: These are the facts Mike. - Dan Banquer 11:43:08 11/14/05 (1)
- Hey Dan!!! - Todd Krieger 19:28:39 11/14/05 (0)
- Re: Well, y'all know - john curl 09:33:18 11/14/05 (44)
- Re: Well, y'all know - Steve Eddy 09:57:06 11/14/05 (43)
- LOL!... - mkuller 10:53:34 11/14/05 (42)
- Grab a clue. - Steve Eddy 15:09:01 11/14/05 (4)
- Re: Grab a clue. - john curl 20:53:37 11/14/05 (3)
- Re: Grab a clue. - Steve Eddy 21:48:41 11/14/05 (2)
- Re: Grab a clue. - john curl 15:29:14 11/16/05 (1)
- Re: Grab a clue. - Steve Eddy 16:48:11 11/16/05 (0)
- What sex act y'all on about? - Silver Eared John 11:41:47 11/14/05 (36)
- Re: What sex act y'all on about? - jneutron 12:16:07 11/14/05 (35)
- Afraid of? - mkuller 13:53:24 11/14/05 (34)
- Re: Afraid of? - Steve Eddy 19:06:59 11/14/05 (33)
- Rules? - mkuller 14:09:02 11/16/05 (32)
- Re: Rules? - Steve Eddy 18:57:12 11/16/05 (0)
- Hey, Steve - Silver Eared John 15:54:35 11/16/05 (30)
- Waaait a minute, here... - mkuller 14:39:16 11/17/05 (24)
- Ok, y'all know about digital recording and sampling, then? - Silver Eared John 19:23:29 11/17/05 (23)
- Ignorance..... - Todd Krieger 20:42:47 11/20/05 (0)
- Got any evidence for this? - mkuller 09:10:58 11/18/05 (16)
- Evasion noted. - Silver Eared John 14:09:07 11/18/05 (6)
- So you make up a lie... - mkuller 16:47:22 11/19/05 (5)
- Evasion again noted. - Silver Eared John 00:56:10 11/20/05 (4)
- Who are you talking about? - mkuller 11:31:40 11/20/05 (3)
- You - Silver Eared John 14:06:06 11/20/05 (2)
- Just crawl away... - mkuller 11:33:27 11/21/05 (1)
- Byeee. Keep crawling - Silver Eared John 13:37:31 11/21/05 (0)
- Well, I'm trying to find out - Silver Eared John 11:35:00 11/18/05 (8)
- So you admit... - mkuller 11:50:25 11/18/05 (7)
- Quoting you from above in this thread - Silver Eared John 14:13:01 11/18/05 (6)
- Re: Quoting you from above in this thread - john curl 17:34:38 11/18/05 (5)
- Y'all like to call names, don't y'all? - Silver Eared John 01:22:24 11/19/05 (4)
- Re: Y'all like to call names, don't y'all? - john curl 09:22:52 11/19/05 (3)
- Yep, y'all just like to call names. - Silver Eared John 10:43:21 11/19/05 (2)
- Hypocrite - look in the mirror... LOL!... - mkuller 13:42:12 11/20/05 (1)
- I can. Can y'all, or do you wince when you look? - Silver Eared John 18:12:54 11/22/05 (0)
- Re: Ok, y'all know about digital recording and sampling, then? - john curl 22:56:04 11/17/05 (4)
- Re: Ok, y'all know about digital recording and sampling, then? - Todd Krieger 21:29:24 11/20/05 (0)
- Y'all still confused, I see - Silver Eared John 11:33:46 11/18/05 (2)
- Re: Y'all still confused, I see - john curl 19:52:22 11/19/05 (1)
- Y'all didn't know him at all, I hear... - Silver Eared John 00:57:05 11/20/05 (0)
- Who's stalkin' who, slick?...(nt) - mkuller 12:10:55 11/17/05 (0)
- Re: Hey, Steve - Steve Eddy 19:11:33 11/16/05 (0)
- Re: Hey, Steve - john curl 18:19:32 11/16/05 (2)
- Hey, John... - mkuller 09:13:07 11/18/05 (1)
- Re: Hey, John... - john curl 11:56:23 11/18/05 (0)
- Thanks. So does that mean... - Commuteman 15:51:31 11/10/05 (25)
- Re: Thanks. So does that mean... - Dan Banquer 04:27:56 11/11/05 (14)
- No, Dan, no... - Silver Eared John 11:47:01 11/11/05 (11)
- Re: No, Dan, no... - Dan Banquer 13:01:15 11/11/05 (10)
- Re: No, Dan, no... - morricab 13:50:35 11/11/05 (4)
- Re: No, Dan, no... - Dan Banquer 14:19:34 11/11/05 (3)
- Dan, I can't get what he's saying... - Silver Eared John 14:24:36 11/11/05 (2)
- Re: Dan, I can't get what he's saying... - morricab 08:39:58 11/14/05 (0)
- Re: Dan, I can't get what he's saying... - Dan Banquer 14:31:13 11/11/05 (0)
- The posters here are distinguishing between distortion and quantization noise... - Silver Eared John 13:16:15 11/11/05 (4)
- Re: The posters here are distinguishing between distortion and quantization noise... - Dan Banquer 14:26:08 11/11/05 (3)
- Well, I'm not really going to argue... - Silver Eared John 14:34:11 11/11/05 (2)
- You're not going to argue... - mkuller 11:02:31 11/15/05 (1)
- I see y'all still stalking... - Silver Eared John 11:19:25 11/15/05 (0)
- dither is not masking, and todays dacs are more than 16 bit linear - jcox 08:07:27 11/11/05 (1)
- Good thing y'all put quotes around that '24 bits' - Silver Eared John 11:48:35 11/11/05 (0)
- Re: Thanks. So does that mean... - Todd Krieger 22:47:13 11/10/05 (0)
- Well, no, err, sorta ... kinda... - Silver Eared John 19:05:20 11/10/05 (7)
- Re: Well, no, err, sorta ... kinda... - Dan Banquer 03:57:06 11/11/05 (2)
- I've seen, once, about 120dB... - Silver Eared John 11:49:59 11/11/05 (1)
- Re: I've seen, once, about 120dB... - morricab 13:54:09 11/11/05 (0)
- Re: Well, no, err, sorta ... kinda... - Todd Krieger 22:32:19 11/10/05 (3)
- Really, now? - Silver Eared John 23:07:41 11/10/05 (2)
- you are correct - tunenut 16:10:25 11/10/05 (0)
- Re: An actual technical post/question, just for a change of pace.... - Todd Krieger 21:57:47 11/09/05 (7)
- Hmmm... - Commuteman 13:46:04 11/10/05 (6)
- Re: Hmmm... - Todd Krieger 17:14:49 11/10/05 (0)
- Re: Hmmm... - Tom Dawson 15:52:53 11/10/05 (4)
- I agree completely.... - Commuteman 16:16:25 11/10/05 (3)
- Re: I agree completely....2 or more channels adds another aspect - macaque 06:34:13 11/11/05 (1)
- But the limit is small, and it's a noise limit, not a "step" limit - Silver Eared John 11:32:07 11/16/05 (0)
- The problem... - Silver Eared John 19:26:48 11/10/05 (0)
- 8-bit wav examples here... - jcox 20:08:00 11/09/05 (0)
- Re: An actual technical post/question, just for a change of pace.... - Tom Dawson 13:32:24 11/09/05 (0)
- Re: Just did google search for "dither" - this is all I found...... - geoffkait 09:24:34 11/09/05 (0)
Follow Ups
- Links to PDFs - Thanks..... - Todd Krieger 21:41:32 11/19/05 (1)
- Re: Links to PDFs - Thanks..... - macaque 09:19:26 11/21/05 (0)
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