In Reply to: An actual technical post/question, just for a change of pace.... posted by Commuteman on November 8, 2005 at 10:43:24:
Well, to answer your question #1, I suspect that y'all find it's a very nasty question, but you can safely presume that there will be lots of high-order haromincs, i.e. many times the original tone, and that those can even alias down into the baseband, creating inharmonic garbage as well. Not dithering is bad.To question 2: Dithering, done properly, will completely eliminate any kind of nonlinear distortion DUE TO QUANTIZATION. It does not mask distortion, as someone says, and it does not "partially" eliminate it, it eliminates any distortion DUE TO THE QUANTIZATION.
It is especially necessary on baseband (i.e. non-oversampled) convertors.
Now, y'all realize, that I qualified the "eliminate distortion" in very large letters. There are, mind you, lots of other ways to get nonlinear distortions, from bad convertors, sample and holds, op amps, filters, ... so that doesn't mean all distortions go away.
And, yes, dither does raise the total system noise level by a small amount compared to the total error represented by the harmonics. It has to.
Oddly enough, though, that means that you can recover signals of much lower energy with dither than without, because for a low-level signal, the undithered result will be 0 0 0 0 0 0 ... and the dithered result will consist of a pattern of -1's, 0's and 1's, that do in fact contain the low-level signal to the extent possible given the noise level. And, yes, y'all can hear it, too, in the right circumstances, under the dither level.
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Follow Ups
- Wow, what's this? A real technical question. - Silver Eared John 15:20:50 11/10/05 (93)
- Re: Wow, what's this? A real technical question. - Tom Dawson 07:31:05 11/11/05 (5)
- Now, y'all, I was talking about dither, not noise shaping - Silver Eared John 11:55:38 11/11/05 (4)
- That's Like Saying.... - Todd Krieger 14:00:56 11/11/05 (3)
- You're out of your mind, chief... - Silver Eared John 14:21:18 11/11/05 (2)
- Re: You're out of your mind, chief... - Todd Krieger 15:50:57 11/11/05 (1)
- Y'all got any point beyond misteaching the technology, kid - Silver Eared John 16:00:11 11/11/05 (0)
- Re: Wow, what's this? A real technical question. - Todd Krieger 16:49:14 11/10/05 (60)
- Y'all need to learn about the frequency domain, lad. - Silver Eared John 19:02:17 11/10/05 (59)
- Re: Y'all need to learn about the frequency domain, lad. - Todd Krieger 22:24:14 11/10/05 (58)
- Y'all trying to shift attention, eh? - Silver Eared John 23:09:13 11/10/05 (57)
- Time's Up..... - Todd Krieger 23:55:21 11/10/05 (56)
- Y'all just had to butt in with misinformation, then, eh? - Silver Eared John 11:45:58 11/11/05 (55)
- Let The Readers Determine That.... - Todd Krieger 19:43:57 11/12/05 (54)
- It's not a popularity contest, slick - Silver Eared John 19:54:15 11/12/05 (53)
- If it was... - mkuller 17:13:58 11/13/05 (52)
- Well, y'all know - Silver Eared John 17:43:09 11/13/05 (51)
- well, consarn it all, ain't it the goldarndest confoundinest - tunenut 11:14:37 11/14/05 (0)
- Well, Curl is right, you know... - mkuller 10:51:39 11/14/05 (4)
- Oh Please! - Dan Banquer 11:03:43 11/14/05 (3)
- That's the facts, Jack... - mkuller 11:34:50 11/14/05 (2)
- Re: These are the facts Mike. - Dan Banquer 11:43:08 11/14/05 (1)
- Hey Dan!!! - Todd Krieger 19:28:39 11/14/05 (0)
- Re: Well, y'all know - john curl 09:33:18 11/14/05 (44)
- Re: Well, y'all know - Steve Eddy 09:57:06 11/14/05 (43)
- LOL!... - mkuller 10:53:34 11/14/05 (42)
- Grab a clue. - Steve Eddy 15:09:01 11/14/05 (4)
- Re: Grab a clue. - john curl 20:53:37 11/14/05 (3)
- Re: Grab a clue. - Steve Eddy 21:48:41 11/14/05 (2)
- Re: Grab a clue. - john curl 15:29:14 11/16/05 (1)
- Re: Grab a clue. - Steve Eddy 16:48:11 11/16/05 (0)
- What sex act y'all on about? - Silver Eared John 11:41:47 11/14/05 (36)
- Re: What sex act y'all on about? - jneutron 12:16:07 11/14/05 (35)
- Afraid of? - mkuller 13:53:24 11/14/05 (34)
- Re: Afraid of? - Steve Eddy 19:06:59 11/14/05 (33)
- Rules? - mkuller 14:09:02 11/16/05 (32)
- Re: Rules? - Steve Eddy 18:57:12 11/16/05 (0)
- Hey, Steve - Silver Eared John 15:54:35 11/16/05 (30)
- Waaait a minute, here... - mkuller 14:39:16 11/17/05 (24)
- Ok, y'all know about digital recording and sampling, then? - Silver Eared John 19:23:29 11/17/05 (23)
- Ignorance..... - Todd Krieger 20:42:47 11/20/05 (0)
- Got any evidence for this? - mkuller 09:10:58 11/18/05 (16)
- Evasion noted. - Silver Eared John 14:09:07 11/18/05 (6)
- So you make up a lie... - mkuller 16:47:22 11/19/05 (5)
- Evasion again noted. - Silver Eared John 00:56:10 11/20/05 (4)
- Who are you talking about? - mkuller 11:31:40 11/20/05 (3)
- You - Silver Eared John 14:06:06 11/20/05 (2)
- Just crawl away... - mkuller 11:33:27 11/21/05 (1)
- Byeee. Keep crawling - Silver Eared John 13:37:31 11/21/05 (0)
- Well, I'm trying to find out - Silver Eared John 11:35:00 11/18/05 (8)
- So you admit... - mkuller 11:50:25 11/18/05 (7)
- Quoting you from above in this thread - Silver Eared John 14:13:01 11/18/05 (6)
- Re: Quoting you from above in this thread - john curl 17:34:38 11/18/05 (5)
- Y'all like to call names, don't y'all? - Silver Eared John 01:22:24 11/19/05 (4)
- Re: Y'all like to call names, don't y'all? - john curl 09:22:52 11/19/05 (3)
- Yep, y'all just like to call names. - Silver Eared John 10:43:21 11/19/05 (2)
- Hypocrite - look in the mirror... LOL!... - mkuller 13:42:12 11/20/05 (1)
- I can. Can y'all, or do you wince when you look? - Silver Eared John 18:12:54 11/22/05 (0)
- Re: Ok, y'all know about digital recording and sampling, then? - john curl 22:56:04 11/17/05 (4)
- Re: Ok, y'all know about digital recording and sampling, then? - Todd Krieger 21:29:24 11/20/05 (0)
- Y'all still confused, I see - Silver Eared John 11:33:46 11/18/05 (2)
- Re: Y'all still confused, I see - john curl 19:52:22 11/19/05 (1)
- Y'all didn't know him at all, I hear... - Silver Eared John 00:57:05 11/20/05 (0)
- Who's stalkin' who, slick?...(nt) - mkuller 12:10:55 11/17/05 (0)
- Re: Hey, Steve - Steve Eddy 19:11:33 11/16/05 (0)
- Re: Hey, Steve - john curl 18:19:32 11/16/05 (2)
- Hey, John... - mkuller 09:13:07 11/18/05 (1)
- Re: Hey, John... - john curl 11:56:23 11/18/05 (0)
- Thanks. So does that mean... - Commuteman 15:51:31 11/10/05 (25)
- Re: Thanks. So does that mean... - Dan Banquer 04:27:56 11/11/05 (14)
- No, Dan, no... - Silver Eared John 11:47:01 11/11/05 (11)
- Re: No, Dan, no... - Dan Banquer 13:01:15 11/11/05 (10)
- Re: No, Dan, no... - morricab 13:50:35 11/11/05 (4)
- Re: No, Dan, no... - Dan Banquer 14:19:34 11/11/05 (3)
- Dan, I can't get what he's saying... - Silver Eared John 14:24:36 11/11/05 (2)
- Re: Dan, I can't get what he's saying... - morricab 08:39:58 11/14/05 (0)
- Re: Dan, I can't get what he's saying... - Dan Banquer 14:31:13 11/11/05 (0)
- The posters here are distinguishing between distortion and quantization noise... - Silver Eared John 13:16:15 11/11/05 (4)
- Re: The posters here are distinguishing between distortion and quantization noise... - Dan Banquer 14:26:08 11/11/05 (3)
- Well, I'm not really going to argue... - Silver Eared John 14:34:11 11/11/05 (2)
- You're not going to argue... - mkuller 11:02:31 11/15/05 (1)
- I see y'all still stalking... - Silver Eared John 11:19:25 11/15/05 (0)
- dither is not masking, and todays dacs are more than 16 bit linear - jcox 08:07:27 11/11/05 (1)
- Good thing y'all put quotes around that '24 bits' - Silver Eared John 11:48:35 11/11/05 (0)
- Re: Thanks. So does that mean... - Todd Krieger 22:47:13 11/10/05 (0)
- Well, no, err, sorta ... kinda... - Silver Eared John 19:05:20 11/10/05 (7)
- Re: Well, no, err, sorta ... kinda... - Dan Banquer 03:57:06 11/11/05 (2)
- I've seen, once, about 120dB... - Silver Eared John 11:49:59 11/11/05 (1)
- Re: I've seen, once, about 120dB... - morricab 13:54:09 11/11/05 (0)
- Re: Well, no, err, sorta ... kinda... - Todd Krieger 22:32:19 11/10/05 (3)
- Really, now? - Silver Eared John 23:07:41 11/10/05 (2)
- you are correct - tunenut 16:10:25 11/10/05 (0)