In Reply to: An actual technical post/question, just for a change of pace.... posted by Commuteman on November 8, 2005 at 10:43:24:
It's only maths, it can't be too hard.The example always given is the 1 kHz sine wave of 4 LSB peak to peak as used in the paper by Lipshitz and Vanderkooy. When quantised this yields a stairstep waveform best described by a matrix of sample numbers and quantisation values. In turn this waveform is the sum of a series of rectangular pulses of height 1 LSB and width given by the stairstep function. The distortion is simply the difference between this waveform and the original sinewave.
There are two ways around this. The first is to perform the Fourier transform of the sum of the pulses, using the Fourier transform of a rectangular pulse repeated at interval 2Πθ with pulse width 2Πk which is E[k + 2/Π(sinkΠ cosθ + sin2kΠ cos2θ/2 + ... + sin nkΠ cosnθ / n). We can just sum the appropriate rectangular pulses noting that E = 1 LSB for all cases.
The second is to note that the worst error approximates a sawtooth wave of 1 LSB peak to peak at a frequency dependent on the relationship between the signal frequency and the sampling rate (at 1kHz and 44.1 kHz sampling the sawtooth frequency is about 12 kHz). This sawtooth is only present for a fraction of the full cycle. We know that the Fourier transform of a sawtooth wave equals E/Π (sinθ - sin2θ/2 + sin3θ/3 ....) and the largest part of this is the fundamental (which is a harmonic of the original signal) with an amplitude of 2/Π times LSB. Its average value over the full cycle will be about half of this or 1/Π times LSB
This gives us a rule of thumb that the harmonic distortion has relative amplitude of -20 log(bits x Π) in dB. For the example given in Lipshitz and Vanderkooy this is about -22dB. This accords with the values in the graph in the paper, so the rule of thumb looks reasonable and I simply couldn't be bothered ploughing through the exact solution. Note that it is perfectly possible that certain of the harmonics of the different pulses will occur at the same frequency and therefore either add or subtract from one another. My rule of thumb naturally does not take this into account.
As the original paper states the dithered waveform does show statistical correlation to the sampled signal so it does have artefacts that are harmonically related to the signal, but the error signal sounds like white noise and the power spectrum shows no such artefacts above the increased noise floor. I believe this last rider is significant.
Mark Kelly
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Follow Ups
- For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - Mark Kelly 18:39:46 11/14/05 (63)
- Umm I was wrong. - Mark Kelly 15:11:43 11/15/05 (0)
- Re: For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - macaque 10:35:32 11/15/05 (59)
- Goodness, Gracious! - Silver Eared John 11:14:38 11/15/05 (58)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 12:10:44 11/15/05 (6)
- Why, a lot of good questions... - Silver Eared John 12:37:37 11/15/05 (5)
- Re: Why, a lot of good questions... - macaque 14:12:20 11/15/05 (4)
- Re: Why, a lot of good questions - Silver Eared John 15:48:02 11/15/05 (3)
- jneutron has been talking about a much lower threshold - Commuteman 11:22:25 11/18/05 (2)
- Threshold for what? - Silver Eared John 13:52:13 11/18/05 (1)
- Just got inta town...what'chall talkin bout? - jneutron 09:32:17 11/21/05 (0)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 11:51:21 11/15/05 (6)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 12:03:38 11/15/05 (5)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 12:15:04 11/15/05 (4)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 14:18:35 11/15/05 (3)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 15:17:45 11/15/05 (2)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - macaque 10:39:29 11/17/05 (1)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Dan Banquer 11:14:51 11/17/05 (0)
- Re: Goodness, Gracious! - Tom Dawson 11:34:01 11/15/05 (43)
- Now y'all hold on. - Silver Eared John 12:18:54 11/15/05 (42)
- Re: Now y'all hold on. - Tom Dawson 14:03:27 11/15/05 (41)
- Now, y'all hold on there. - Silver Eared John 14:06:24 11/15/05 (40)
- Re: Now, y'all hold on there. - Tom Dawson 22:21:05 11/15/05 (5)
- No, that's not the worst case, guy - Silver Eared John 12:53:17 11/16/05 (4)
- 'Fraid it is. Your argument fails due to its absolute dependence on extremely long spectral timing averaging requirement - Tom Dawson 07:16:49 11/23/05 (3)
- Y'all say? Well, y'all say, but no, it's not true - Silver Eared John 20:58:53 11/24/05 (2)
- What do you not understand about the potential interchannel sampling timing error of a transition of arbitrary size? - Tom Dawson 22:00:29 11/24/05 (1)
- There ain't none, that's what I understand. - Silver Eared John 11:12:57 11/25/05 (0)
- Re: Now, y'all hold on there. - macaque 14:36:54 11/15/05 (33)
- No, no, no - Silver Eared John 15:54:32 11/15/05 (32)
- Re: No, no, no - macaque 14:17:55 11/16/05 (31)
- Y'all missing something important there. - Silver Eared John 15:45:24 11/16/05 (30)
- Re: Y'all missing something important there. - macaque 17:23:49 11/16/05 (29)
- Why not just listen, then look… - jcox 20:16:20 11/18/05 (0)
- No, there isn't. - Silver Eared John 18:52:24 11/16/05 (27)
- Re: No, there isn't. - macaque 05:17:23 11/17/05 (26)
- Re: No, there isn't. - Todd Krieger 20:33:06 11/17/05 (23)
- Oh, more mythology - Silver Eared John 22:42:19 11/17/05 (22)
- Oh Really?? - Todd Krieger 01:50:32 11/18/05 (21)
- You're full of it. - Silver Eared John 13:59:04 11/18/05 (0)
- Re: Oh Really?? - macaque 06:58:07 11/18/05 (19)
- Noise? - Silver Eared John 14:00:09 11/18/05 (11)
- Re: Noise? - macaque 14:57:55 11/18/05 (10)
- Indeed. - Silver Eared John 16:14:12 11/18/05 (9)
- Re: Indeed. - macaque 17:40:26 11/18/05 (8)
- Re: Indeed. - Todd Krieger 23:21:00 11/18/05 (7)
- Re: Indeed. - Links to PDFs - macaque 07:14:25 11/19/05 (3)
- Outstanding! Thanks. (nt) - andy_c 13:13:59 11/20/05 (0)
- Links to PDFs - Thanks..... - Todd Krieger 21:41:32 11/19/05 (1)
- Re: Links to PDFs - Thanks..... - macaque 09:19:26 11/21/05 (0)
- Goodness, gracious, and you're talking like an expert? - Silver Eared John 01:20:10 11/19/05 (2)
- Re: Goodness, gracious, and you're talking like an expert? - macaque 07:48:24 11/19/05 (1)
- Well, there are some issues, I'm sure. - Silver Eared John 10:42:34 11/19/05 (0)
- Re: Oh Really?? - Todd Krieger 09:56:19 11/18/05 (6)
- Re: Oh Really?? - macaque 10:50:34 11/18/05 (5)
- Bit depth vs.analog stuff - Silver Eared John 11:50:06 11/22/05 (3)
- Re: Bit depth vs.analog stuff - john curl 10:38:20 11/24/05 (2)
- Bull pucky, plain and simple. - Silver Eared John 11:15:44 11/25/05 (1)
- Re: Bull pucky, plain and simple. - john curl 11:26:08 11/25/05 (0)
- I Think You Got It.... - Todd Krieger 22:55:44 11/18/05 (0)
- Re: No, there isn't. - Silver Eared John 16:16:55 11/17/05 (0)
- Testing capability of extyracting correlated info from noise - Jacques 07:04:16 11/17/05 (0)
- Re: For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - Dan Banquer 05:50:28 11/15/05 (1)
- Re: For an even greater change of pace, let's try to answer the question - Todd Krieger 08:53:27 11/15/05 (0)