Is it a scam if it works? - Norm - Propeller Head Plaza

Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - GSIC marketing corrections - Allan 03:13:24 06/21/05 (225)

Nice pictures, thanks. nt - Elizabeth 06:01:03 06/29/05 (0)

What about.... - RBP 15:20:02 06/25/05 (1)

Re: What about.... - Ken Perkins 18:02:27 06/25/05 (0)

Ping: Wellfed - bjh 11:19:52 06/23/05 (1)

Nope... - Wellfed 14:22:27 06/23/05 (0)

Yet another last chapter of the GSIC saga! - KlausR. 06:11:07 06/22/05 (150)

Re: Yet another last chapter of the GSIC saga! - Allan 10:26:26 06/22/05 (73)

Geoff Kait - KlausR. 00:39:54 06/23/05 (25)

Re: KlausR - geoffkait 08:04:23 06/23/05 (24)

Bad memory, Geoff! - KlausR. 00:14:19 06/24/05 (23)

Not that it matters, but... - Jim Austin 08:20:20 06/24/05 (1)

What is relevant in this context is... - KlausR. 22:18:29 06/24/05 (0)

Re: "I decided to avoid high end altogether." - geoffkait 04:54:23 06/24/05 (20)

Deja vu, do you remember? - KlausR. 05:12:07 06/24/05 (19)

Re: Exactly my point!... - geoffkait 05:44:17 06/24/05 (18)

tweaks such as vibration isolation or Mr. Chip - jensw 21:06:28 06/28/05 (0)

How relative is relative? - KlausR. 06:59:27 06/24/05 (14)

"I don't think that [tweaks] can make my system any better." So much for *your* thinking! - clarkjohnsen 08:18:44 06/24/05 (1)

I'm a twiiiker, yes a twiiiker I am! - KlausR. 00:03:53 06/25/05 (0)

Re: Everything is relative, Grasshopper - geoffkait 07:15:18 06/24/05 (11)

Re: Revenge of the DBTers attitude - Jim Willis 03:36:08 06/25/05 (10)

Would someone please explain... - Jim Austin 08:38:08 06/27/05 (0)

Re: Revenge of the DBTers attitude - john curl 17:58:50 06/25/05 (8)

Re: Revenge of the DBTers attitude - john curl 21:32:27 06/25/05 (6)

Re: Revenge of the DBTers attitude - Jim Willis 06:14:12 06/26/05 (5)

Re: Revenge of the DBTers attitude - john curl 08:25:16 06/26/05 (4)

Re: Revenge of the DBTers attitude - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 15:09:10 06/27/05 (1)

I protest! They're brilliant! (Ahhhhh) nt - bjh 22:10:41 06/27/05 (0)

Re: Revenge of the DBTers attitude - Jim Willis 11:08:10 06/26/05 (0)

JSMR - KlausR. 09:13:45 06/26/05 (0)

Re: Revenge of the DBTers attitude - Jim Willis 18:48:22 06/25/05 (0)

Feelings... he has feelings... nt - clarkjohnsen 06:52:04 06/24/05 (1)

Even better, Clark... - KlausR. 07:01:46 06/24/05 (0)

Re: Yet another last chapter of the GSIC saga! - john curl 10:58:25 06/22/05 (46)

Laws of nature and engineeering rules - Jim Austin 12:09:41 06/24/05 (10)

Re: Laws of nature and engineeering rules - john curl 14:32:43 06/24/05 (9)

Re: Handy guide - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 22:09:30 06/27/05 (0)

Not sure there is such a "handy guide"... - Jim Austin 04:50:18 06/27/05 (6)

Re: Not sure there is such a "handy guide"... - john curl 17:29:19 07/04/05 (5)

No reason why you should believe me John - Jim Austin 07:26:01 07/05/05 (4)

Re: No reason why you should believe me John - geoffkait 08:20:25 07/05/05 (3)

Re: No reason why you should believe me John - Jim Austin 08:40:16 07/05/05 (2)

Re: No reason why you should believe me John - geoffkait 09:43:33 07/05/05 (1)

Cynical? - Jim Austin 10:34:51 07/05/05 (1)

Re: Laws of nature and engineeering rules - Steve Eddy 00:20:53 06/25/05 (0)

Do you REALLY want to know what the chip is? NO. - KlausR. 00:22:39 06/23/05 (29)

Re: Do you REALLY want to know what the chip is? NO. - john curl 07:25:03 06/23/05 (28)

Does this sound like hypothesizing? - KlausR. 07:52:40 06/23/05 (27)

The question begs asking... - Wellfed 09:11:35 06/23/05 (26)

Even if I did have the chip examined... - KlausR. 00:56:09 06/24/05 (9)

I wouldn't care... - Wellfed 12:37:46 07/01/05 (8)

Then you are the perfect target... - KlausR. 22:04:18 07/01/05 (7)

You presumably miss my point... - Wellfed 22:21:18 07/01/05 (6)

I make you a proposal - KlausR. 05:19:40 07/02/05 (1)

Sounds good... - Wellfed 20:12:15 07/02/05 (0)

I don't think I've missed your point! - KlausR. 04:11:49 07/02/05 (3)

Don't forget... - Wellfed 20:49:56 07/02/05 (2)

Re: Don't forget... - john curl 22:26:22 07/03/05 (1)

Encouragement/reinforcement. - soulfood 08:52:17 07/04/05 (0)

there's no need - BS64 11:43:41 06/23/05 (11)

Is that so?... - Wellfed 14:17:55 06/23/05 (10)

"Don't you have anything better to do?" - BS64 15:32:05 06/23/05 (9)

What is the context of your "gloating"?... - Wellfed 16:21:04 06/23/05 (8)

Re: What is the context of your "gloating"?... - BS64 08:49:12 06/26/05 (7)

I didn't tell Klaus to have the GSIC tested... - Wellfed 19:32:32 06/28/05 (6)

"...given your level of interest in the subject, why don't YOU have the chip tested? " - BS64 10:28:12 07/01/05 (5)

Your point being? [nt] - Wellfed 12:40:17 07/01/05 (4)

you stated that you did not tell Klaus to have the chip tested - BS64 04:05:48 07/02/05 (3)

Did not... - Wellfed 21:00:50 07/02/05 (2)

did so - BS64 12:31:04 07/03/05 (1)

Literally speaking... - Wellfed 23:13:33 07/04/05 (0)

Hijacker! nt - bjh 10:33:14 06/23/05 (3)

Serious question... - Wellfed 14:19:04 06/23/05 (2)

No seriously I was interested in Curl's response - bjh 17:02:25 06/23/05 (1)

No, I don't... - Wellfed 21:54:40 06/23/05 (0)

Keep an open mind, John, you might learn something. - Al Sekela 16:48:17 06/22/05 (0)

"Do we REALLY know what the chip is? NO!" - bjh 12:13:23 06/22/05 (0)

Re: Yet another last chapter of the GSIC saga! - Allan 11:34:32 06/22/05 (1)

"Clark has no more interest in integrity either." According to your minions... - clarkjohnsen 07:51:17 06/23/05 (0)

"That's why I chuckle when..." That's what one must do with these people. nt - clarkjohnsen 11:03:04 06/22/05 (0)

With an addendum. - Jim Treanor 09:42:54 06/22/05 (3)

Heat? - bjh 10:22:32 06/23/05 (0)

questions - tunenut 09:51:16 06/22/05 (1)

Answers...sort of... - Jim Treanor 12:09:11 06/22/05 (0)

If you don't trust your ears, what can we say? nt - Norm 06:37:50 06/22/05 (71)

It's not OUR ears we don't trust... - Jim Austin 07:39:53 06/22/05 (69)

"...it's YOUR ears." And Dr. Gaw's, and Ken Kessler's, and Steve Harris's, and Marshall Nack's, and... anyone who... - clarkjohnsen 07:50:05 06/22/05 (68)

Actually... - Jim Austin 10:53:11 06/22/05 (64)

Actually...You just want to trash the chip, never have time to listen, right ? - henry Jones 17:49:17 06/28/05 (0)

Re: Actually... - john curl 07:44:54 06/23/05 (53)

Re: Actually... - Steve Eddy 09:13:36 06/23/05 (4)

Re: Actually... - john curl 13:07:57 06/23/05 (3)

Re: Actually... - Steve Eddy 15:33:00 06/23/05 (0)

Objection... - Wellfed 14:46:51 06/23/05 (1)

Re: Objection... - john curl 16:05:36 06/23/05 (0)

I'm not a real scientist. - Jim Austin 08:41:03 06/23/05 (46)

"scientists...embrace very high standards of proof for radical results" Not true! - Norm 09:35:36 06/23/05 (45)

science and audio - Jim Austin 10:04:53 06/23/05 (44)

I don't think the limited "science" of critics of the IC define what is "real" and what is not. - Norm 11:31:53 06/23/05 (43)

So the challenge is to come up with a 'hypothesis' that - bjh 11:59:50 06/23/05 (38)

Re: "Hypothesis" is not my word... - geoffkait 12:25:23 06/23/05 (37)

What do you play these games? The admission is on the public record! - bjh 12:51:39 06/23/05 (36)

Re: You don't do very well on reading comprehension tests, do you? - geoffkait 14:25:22 06/23/05 (1)

Then feel free to address the substance of the challenge. Prediction: You won't. nt - bjh 16:58:11 06/23/05 (0)

Why should anyone take the challenge seriously, it is just prattling on about pseudo science, but - Norm 13:52:44 06/23/05 (33)

Finally!!! - Ken Perkins 16:27:59 06/23/05 (29)

Are you happy that it is selling well? nt - Norm 16:59:19 06/23/05 (28)

Actually I'm not - Ken Perkins 17:18:06 06/23/05 (27)

Re: Actually I'm not - RBP 17:26:33 06/24/05 (1)

Re: Actually ... - Jim Willis 06:53:13 06/25/05 (0)

OK Ken... - Wellfed 22:08:15 06/23/05 (24)

The simple facts - Ken Perkins 05:21:31 06/24/05 (23)

Is it a scam if it works? - Norm 11:14:47 06/24/05 (13)

There is a little anecdotal evidence for you. (nt) - Al Sekela 14:34:27 06/24/05 (11)

Certainly it is anecdotal evidence. It is no evidence to say it cannot work. nt - Norm 15:38:24 06/24/05 (10)

Re: With one exception... - Jim Willis 06:47:46 06/25/05 (9)

If a visual perception allows this judgment. nt - Norm 08:07:10 06/25/05 (8)

Re: If a visual perception allows this judgment. nt - Jim Willis 12:15:04 06/25/05 (7)

No, but what do they show or not show? What would we expect to see? nt - Norm 13:29:25 06/25/05 (6)

We have the pics and a qualitive analysis... - KlausR. 08:10:54 06/26/05 (5)

And to the counter, I must conclude that it does work and is not a scam - Norm 15:41:08 06/26/05 (4)

Quantum material everywhere? - KlausR. 23:25:49 06/26/05 (3)

Re: Quantum material everywhere? - Norm 06:36:29 06/28/05 (2)

Franssen illusion - KlausR. 08:16:29 06/28/05 (1)

Enough, no one else is probably paying attention, and we will never convince each other. nt - Norm 11:19:51 06/28/05 (0)

Re: Is it a scam if it works? - Ken Perkins 13:15:28 06/24/05 (0)

"No one in the media... have heard of it, worked with it or endorsed it." ROTFLOL! - clarkjohnsen 08:23:06 06/24/05 (8)

Re: "No one in the media... have heard of it, worked with it or endorsed it." ROTFLOL! - Ken Perkins 09:01:42 06/24/05 (7)

"Only the media that caters to and exploits audiophools like you." Let's see, that would be... - clarkjohnsen 09:32:10 06/28/05 (4)

Seriously, talk to someone would you. You've lost it. You need help. Seriously. nt - - Ken Perkins 13:30:58 06/28/05 (3)

So: It *is* Sound & Vision for you. We're glad to have confirmation. nt - clarkjohnsen 14:35:14 06/28/05 (2)

Re: So: It *is* Sound & Vision for you. We're glad to have confirmation. nt - Ken Perkins 17:21:08 06/28/05 (1)

"...one-liner hit and run posts and your whiney letter to Stereophile." Well let's just say... - clarkjohnsen 07:56:14 06/29/05 (0)

Your other "points" were dull -- and have already been refuted. - clarkjohnsen 07:44:54 06/25/05 (1)

Seriously, talk to someone would you. You've lost it. You need help. Seriously. nt - bjh 19:20:04 06/25/05 (0)

... with your money! HA HA HA nt - bjh 13:59:59 06/23/05 (2)

probably not yours. Too bad! nt - Norm 14:13:49 06/23/05 (1)

His loss, not ours. nt - clarkjohnsen 08:23:49 06/24/05 (0)

If you're counting me among those "critics"... - Jim Austin 11:53:34 06/23/05 (3)

I think what you stated as your position is what I said is the position of "critics." - Norm 13:56:34 06/23/05 (2)

No, I don't particularly... - Jim Austin 14:51:17 06/23/05 (1)

As the old saying goes, "if it looks like a ......" nt - Norm 17:00:55 06/23/05 (0)

"X-rays are a hoax!" Aren't they? I've never seen any! nt - clarkjohnsen 07:53:50 06/23/05 (0)

Actually, Jim I don't give a fig what you say. nt - Norm 20:27:33 06/22/05 (4)

Good for you Norm... - Jim Austin 06:03:50 06/23/05 (3)

Actually, Jim, it was your illogical offering in Stereophile that causes me to disregard your offerings. - Norm 06:30:14 06/23/05 (2)

It's not illogical... - Jim Austin 08:19:24 06/23/05 (1)

No they are easy to grasp - Norm 09:06:03 06/23/05 (0)

You forgot.... - Ken Perkins 11:02:12 06/22/05 (3)

or you may have too many books and printed material - tunenut 11:08:54 06/22/05 (2)

Ah the Bent (opps Belt) Connection ... - bjh 12:31:18 06/22/05 (0)

Re: or you may have too many books and printed material - Ken Perkins 11:17:54 06/22/05 (0)

It's the vacuum between the ears that's the problem. - Dan Banquer 08:34:55 06/22/05 (2)

Maybe an empty skull adds some reverberation to the "perceived" sound? (nt) - orejones 09:00:53 06/22/05 (1)

GOOD ONE! (nt) - Dan Banquer 09:20:18 06/22/05 (0)

Re: If you don't trust your ears, what can we say? nt - KlausR. 07:11:52 06/22/05 (0)

Magic and Langmuir's "Pathological Science" - Mark Kelly 20:03:31 06/21/05 (7)

Re: Magic and Langmuir's "Pathological Science" - Jacques 13:02:29 06/22/05 (0)

Re: Magic and Langmuir's "Pathological Science" - dickc212@msn.com 08:12:07 06/22/05 (0)

Can you put this information in laymen's terms? [nt] - Wellfed 22:36:16 06/21/05 (4)

Langmuir himself did it pretty well, as you will see... - orejones 02:37:47 06/22/05 (1)

I think I put up that link before;guess they didn't read it - Atexanathome 17:59:08 06/22/05 (0)

My post or Langmuir's talk? - Mark Kelly 01:36:05 06/22/05 (1)

Langmuir's talk [nt] - Wellfed 12:05:50 06/22/05 (0)

A paradigm for magical thinking. - Al Sekela 16:58:37 06/21/05 (7)

I find it fascinating that it bugs you so! - Norm 17:36:07 06/21/05 (6)

Of course the chip is safe. - Al Sekela 17:45:06 06/21/05 (5)

Re: Of course the chip is safe. - Jacques 14:21:12 06/22/05 (4)

Thanks for a wonderful link! - Al Sekela 16:22:04 06/22/05 (3)

Re: Thanks for a wonderful link! - Jacques 00:58:02 06/23/05 (2)

Thanks again for a thoroughly interesting discussion. - Al Sekela 13:44:54 06/23/05 (1)

As with cars, except for those who buy Toyotas? Computers? Where not true? nt - Norm 14:00:02 06/23/05 (0)

As the someone... - Jim Treanor 16:40:44 06/21/05 (1)

Re: As the someone... - Tom Dawson 16:56:42 06/21/05 (0)

Thank you for your thorough description. Now what? - Norm 13:48:55 06/21/05 (3)

Ah, reality... - Wellfed 13:56:11 06/21/05 (2)

Re: Ah, reality... - Tom Dawson 16:33:16 06/21/05 (1)

I have used up 5. When they go, you hear no improvement. - Norm 17:32:13 06/21/05 (0)

Somewhere in your analysis will we find an explanation of why... - clarkjohnsen 09:13:26 06/21/05 (7)

Re: Somewhere in your analysis will we find an explanation of why... - Allan 10:26:00 06/21/05 (6)

Still waiting for a reply to the below... nt - clarkjohnsen 07:59:14 06/23/05 (1)

pssst! - bjh 11:26:23 06/23/05 (0)

"just say you don't know and leave it at that" - BS64 10:13:38 06/22/05 (0)

"They never deplete because they never begin." Hmmm... something circular there... - clarkjohnsen 13:17:05 06/21/05 (2)

Same old same old - Dave Pogue 13:46:11 06/21/05 (0)

Reason-go-'round - jbmcb 13:44:44 06/21/05 (0)

Sure is quiet in here today - Ken Perkins 09:06:22 06/21/05 (23)

It should also be noted that most anti-chipsters go into hibernation... - Wellfed 12:04:15 06/21/05 (22)

Well, do we now? - Silver Eared John 15:49:33 07/27/05 (1)

I am pretty sure we do... - Wellfed 16:04:47 07/27/05 (0)

Re: It should also be noted that most anti-chipsters go into hibernation... - dickc212@msn.com 08:23:24 06/22/05 (1)

Same audio press... - Wellfed 12:08:31 06/22/05 (0)

Hibernation my a**. - Dan Banquer 13:14:20 06/21/05 (3)

It's only drivel when a positive outcome is noted? [nt] - Wellfed 13:51:29 06/21/05 (2)

Drivel or Delusional? Your choice. - Dan Banquer 13:57:38 06/21/05 (1)

Well if your wife says it's delusional... - Wellfed 14:01:20 06/21/05 (0)

You must be joking right? - Ken Perkins 12:16:59 06/21/05 (13)

When joking... - Wellfed 13:50:04 06/21/05 (12)

" the lack of germane and honest commentary acknowledging the positive GSIC reviews" - Ken Perkins 16:56:09 06/21/05 (11)

I truly do not have a problem with dissenting views... - Wellfed 21:05:57 06/21/05 (9)

"They worship their own opinion." Well there you have it! Mammon, in person. nt - clarkjohnsen 07:38:59 06/22/05 (1)

Mammon you say? Hmmmm..., thatÂ´s more appliable to those trying to sell it... - orejones 08:45:30 06/22/05 (0)

How can dissenting views be fairly self-moderated...common sense? - soulfood 06:52:23 06/22/05 (6)

I am referring to something really obvious... - Wellfed 15:39:15 06/22/05 (5)

Sensationalism attracts extremists. - soulfood 09:13:04 06/23/05 (4)

I do attempt the courtesy of staying close to the topic... - Wellfed 14:41:49 06/23/05 (3)

Staying close to this particular topic is a vessel for contention. - soulfood 16:54:14 06/23/05 (2)

Exactly... - Wellfed 06:53:35 06/26/05 (1)

We are all guilty of dismissive assertions. - soulfood 13:14:23 06/26/05 (0)

Opps, it is the dog that is the judge. nt - Norm 20:26:18 06/21/05 (0)

Geoffkait begs to differ, I'm sure. - Tom Dawson 08:21:14 06/21/05 (12)

There's nothing to differ about. - Allan 09:24:16 06/21/05 (10)

Why were you hoping for aluminum foil?... - Wellfed 12:07:02 06/21/05 (9)

Re: Why were you hoping for aluminum foil?... - john curl 12:48:44 06/21/05 (4)

Re: Why were you hoping for aluminum foil?... - Jim Willis 07:35:49 06/22/05 (1)

Re: Why were you hoping for aluminum foil?... - orejones 08:56:58 06/22/05 (0)

He's like those guys at Harvard who photographed the skies and thought that was all to know about stars. nt - clarkjohnsen 13:24:26 06/21/05 (1)

Re: He's like those guys at Harvard who photographed the skies and thought that was all to know about stars. nt - john curl 08:15:15 06/23/05 (0)

Re: Why were you hoping for aluminum foil?... - Allan 12:36:47 06/21/05 (3)

I see... - Wellfed 14:05:14 06/21/05 (2)

Only what you want to. - Allan 15:06:19 06/21/05 (1)

I'm all for ethical business practice... - Wellfed 15:34:17 06/21/05 (0)

Don't take any bets though. - soulfood 08:43:19 06/21/05 (0)

Well, that's a breath of fresh air. - Dave Pogue 05:13:56 06/21/05 (0)

Excellent post, Allan. And no further comments needed, IÂ´d say... (nt) - orejones 04:24:21 06/21/05 (0)

Follow Ups

Is it a scam if it works? - Norm 11:14:47 06/24/05 (13)

There is a little anecdotal evidence for you. (nt) - Al Sekela 14:34:27 06/24/05 (11)

Certainly it is anecdotal evidence. It is no evidence to say it cannot work. nt - Norm 15:38:24 06/24/05 (10)

Re: With one exception... - Jim Willis 06:47:46 06/25/05 (9)

If a visual perception allows this judgment. nt - Norm 08:07:10 06/25/05 (8)

Re: If a visual perception allows this judgment. nt - Jim Willis 12:15:04 06/25/05 (7)

No, but what do they show or not show? What would we expect to see? nt - Norm 13:29:25 06/25/05 (6)

We have the pics and a qualitive analysis... - KlausR. 08:10:54 06/26/05 (5)

And to the counter, I must conclude that it does work and is not a scam - Norm 15:41:08 06/26/05 (4)

Quantum material everywhere? - KlausR. 23:25:49 06/26/05 (3)

Re: Quantum material everywhere? - Norm 06:36:29 06/28/05 (2)

Franssen illusion - KlausR. 08:16:29 06/28/05 (1)

Enough, no one else is probably paying attention, and we will never convince each other. nt - Norm 11:19:51 06/28/05 (0)

Re: Is it a scam if it works? - Ken Perkins 13:15:28 06/24/05 (0)