In Reply to: Re: Actually... posted by john curl on June 23, 2005 at 07:44:54:
Though I used to be. I'm a writer now, and an editor. I left behind a fairly promising career in science to follow my wife to another part of the country where she had been offered an excellent job. (a decision I remain very proud of, and which has worked out very well for me in the long run). Yet I learned a heck of a lot during the 10 or so years that I studied and practiced science, and I still draw on that knowledge in my thinking.JC, with respect--and I mean that, as I have great respect for your accomplishments as a designer--you couldn't be more wrong in suggesting that a "real scientist" would remain neutral about the chip until listening. There are a couple of reasons for that, but one of them is that merely listening would never be considered a scientific test, at least not without adequate controls. Since no one has done a test with adequate controls, there's really no evidence that the chip works. There is, however, a great deal of justification for skepticism.
I am not suggesting--and have never suggested--that audiophiles should require scientific methodology. YOU are the one who suggested I was being unscientific. My response: there's nothing scientific about this whole business.
When I was practicing science--I've got about 20 publications in respectable peer-reviewed scientific journals to my credit--I was an experimentalist. So I have a great respect for experimental science; but every experimentalist has to know some theory--we take the same courses the theorists do--and should remain skeptical of any experimental result that seems to contradict established theory--especially the most fundamental established theory. That's a healthy approach; I'd even suggest that it's essential to healthy science. Because such breakthroughs happen very rarely, scientists learn to embrace very high standards of proof for really radical results. You have to--if you don't impose high standards on yourself, the reviewers of the paper you submit will impose them for you, and reject the paper. As they should.
No evidence that's been presented so far would pass even the least rigorous scientific test. From a scientific standpoint, there IS NO evidence that the chip works, none at all. That by itself means little. But combined with the implausibility of the chip--the complete absence of a viable mechanism of action--and any other attitude than the one I've taken would be unscientific.
Be Well,
Jim
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Follow Ups
- I'm not a real scientist. - Jim Austin 08:41:03 06/23/05 (46)
- "scientists...embrace very high standards of proof for radical results" Not true! - Norm 09:35:36 06/23/05 (45)
- science and audio - Jim Austin 10:04:53 06/23/05 (44)
- I don't think the limited "science" of critics of the IC define what is "real" and what is not. - Norm 11:31:53 06/23/05 (43)
- So the challenge is to come up with a 'hypothesis' that - bjh 11:59:50 06/23/05 (38)
- Re: "Hypothesis" is not my word... - geoffkait 12:25:23 06/23/05 (37)
- What do you play these games? The admission is on the public record! - bjh 12:51:39 06/23/05 (36)
- Re: You don't do very well on reading comprehension tests, do you? - geoffkait 14:25:22 06/23/05 (1)
- Then feel free to address the substance of the challenge. Prediction: You won't. nt - bjh 16:58:11 06/23/05 (0)
- Why should anyone take the challenge seriously, it is just prattling on about pseudo science, but - Norm 13:52:44 06/23/05 (33)
- Finally!!! - Ken Perkins 16:27:59 06/23/05 (29)
- Are you happy that it is selling well? nt - Norm 16:59:19 06/23/05 (28)
- Actually I'm not - Ken Perkins 17:18:06 06/23/05 (27)
- Re: Actually I'm not - RBP 17:26:33 06/24/05 (1)
- Re: Actually ... - Jim Willis 06:53:13 06/25/05 (0)
- OK Ken... - Wellfed 22:08:15 06/23/05 (24)
- The simple facts - Ken Perkins 05:21:31 06/24/05 (23)
- Is it a scam if it works? - Norm 11:14:47 06/24/05 (13)
- There is a little anecdotal evidence for you. (nt) - Al Sekela 14:34:27 06/24/05 (11)
- Certainly it is anecdotal evidence. It is no evidence to say it cannot work. nt - Norm 15:38:24 06/24/05 (10)
- Re: With one exception... - Jim Willis 06:47:46 06/25/05 (9)
- If a visual perception allows this judgment. nt - Norm 08:07:10 06/25/05 (8)
- Re: If a visual perception allows this judgment. nt - Jim Willis 12:15:04 06/25/05 (7)
- No, but what do they show or not show? What would we expect to see? nt - Norm 13:29:25 06/25/05 (6)
- We have the pics and a qualitive analysis... - KlausR. 08:10:54 06/26/05 (5)
- And to the counter, I must conclude that it does work and is not a scam - Norm 15:41:08 06/26/05 (4)
- Quantum material everywhere? - KlausR. 23:25:49 06/26/05 (3)
- Re: Quantum material everywhere? - Norm 06:36:29 06/28/05 (2)
- Franssen illusion - KlausR. 08:16:29 06/28/05 (1)
- Enough, no one else is probably paying attention, and we will never convince each other. nt - Norm 11:19:51 06/28/05 (0)
- Re: Is it a scam if it works? - Ken Perkins 13:15:28 06/24/05 (0)
- "No one in the media... have heard of it, worked with it or endorsed it." ROTFLOL! - clarkjohnsen 08:23:06 06/24/05 (8)
- Re: "No one in the media... have heard of it, worked with it or endorsed it." ROTFLOL! - Ken Perkins 09:01:42 06/24/05 (7)
- "Only the media that caters to and exploits audiophools like you." Let's see, that would be... - clarkjohnsen 09:32:10 06/28/05 (4)
- Seriously, talk to someone would you. You've lost it. You need help. Seriously. nt - - Ken Perkins 13:30:58 06/28/05 (3)
- So: It *is* Sound & Vision for you. We're glad to have confirmation. nt - clarkjohnsen 14:35:14 06/28/05 (2)
- Re: So: It *is* Sound & Vision for you. We're glad to have confirmation. nt - Ken Perkins 17:21:08 06/28/05 (1)
- "...one-liner hit and run posts and your whiney letter to Stereophile." Well let's just say... - clarkjohnsen 07:56:14 06/29/05 (0)
- Your other "points" were dull -- and have already been refuted. - clarkjohnsen 07:44:54 06/25/05 (1)
- Seriously, talk to someone would you. You've lost it. You need help. Seriously. nt - bjh 19:20:04 06/25/05 (0)
- ... with your money! HA HA HA nt - bjh 13:59:59 06/23/05 (2)
- probably not yours. Too bad! nt - Norm 14:13:49 06/23/05 (1)
- His loss, not ours. nt - clarkjohnsen 08:23:49 06/24/05 (0)
- If you're counting me among those "critics"... - Jim Austin 11:53:34 06/23/05 (3)
- I think what you stated as your position is what I said is the position of "critics." - Norm 13:56:34 06/23/05 (2)
- No, I don't particularly... - Jim Austin 14:51:17 06/23/05 (1)
- As the old saying goes, "if it looks like a ......" nt - Norm 17:00:55 06/23/05 (0)