In Reply to: Re: Oh, and your explaination of dither is wrong, too... posted by Todd Krieger on June 16, 2006 at 12:21:55:
HowdyPerhaps a different point of view might add some insight (assuming that this is different than JJ's deck which I haven't even glanced at.)
Dithering (when done properly) does add a little noise to the signal, but it also (statistically, hence the noise) reveals some of what's going on below the noise floor. It makes no assumption about what happens downstream, let alone assumptions about the DAC.
For example when disk seek rates and sizes were lower some digital audio editing systems worked in higher precision internally, but (unfortunately) only wrote, say 16/44.1 to the disc. Therefor each editing pass or session would loose significant info. By dithering just before writing at lower resolution they lost less info at the expense of some noise. No DACs involved...
A poor man's dither could be (ignoring signs etc., just to keep things simple):
add a random number between 0 and 1 least significant bit (of the result resolution) to each sample before chopping to the result resolution.
That's it. You're done, it works. For example: Use an input sine wave at an amplitude just below an lsb. With no dither you'd get all 0's in your output. With the dither algo above 10% of the time the sine wave's amplitude was 10% of an lsb you'd get an lsb, 20% ==> 20%, etc. You now have some information you didn't have before and it correlates to the real data (with some noise.)
There are technical reasons for choosing various distributions of random numbers, etc. but the process and results are similar.
In a hand waving sense SACD's DSD is similar and indeed after filtering can give back the original signal (with noise) and perhaps this is similar to what you are talking about, but it's still the case that dither doesn't require any particular DAC to work. Of course your selection of a DAC will affect the results of a dither signal, but it affects everything else too.
-Ted
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Follow Ups
- Nope, this isn't right, Let me try to explain dither. - Ted Smith 13:10:43 06/16/06 (34)
- Re: Nope, this isn't right, Let me try to explain dither. - Todd Krieger 13:42:58 06/16/06 (33)
- Re: Nope, this isn't right, Let me try to explain dither. - Ted Smith 13:50:26 06/16/06 (32)
- Re: Nope, this isn't right, Let me try to explain dither. - Todd Krieger 13:58:52 06/16/06 (3)
- Nope.... - real_jj 14:03:54 06/16/06 (2)
- Re: Nope.... - Todd Krieger 14:27:33 06/16/06 (1)
- Got anything to say, Todd? - real_jj 20:00:32 06/16/06 (0)
- this is, I believe, his point - tunenut 13:58:39 06/16/06 (27)
- I know, but - Ted Smith 14:12:42 06/16/06 (25)
- Maybe This Would Help.... - Todd Krieger 15:07:43 06/16/06 (19)
- ***sigh*** Same mistake you made years ago - real_jj 20:04:17 06/16/06 (2)
- Re: ***sigh*** Same mistake you made years ago - Todd Krieger 00:01:30 06/17/06 (1)
- So, like the guy at www.timecube.com, you won't go away... - real_jj 00:26:31 06/17/06 (0)
- That's misleading and actually wrong. - Ted Smith 15:28:54 06/16/06 (15)
- Re: That's misleading and actually wrong. - Todd Krieger 21:07:20 06/16/06 (14)
- Still the same mistake. - real_jj 22:21:43 06/16/06 (13)
- Re: Still the same mistake. - Todd Krieger 23:50:30 06/16/06 (12)
- Of course you can in many cases! - Ted Smith 07:39:37 06/17/06 (7)
- Bullshit.... - Todd Krieger 11:01:50 06/17/06 (6)
- Sorry Todd - Ted Smith 12:22:28 06/17/06 (2)
- Re: Sorry Todd - Todd Krieger 12:55:53 06/17/06 (1)
- Re: Sorry Todd - Ted Smith 13:03:49 06/17/06 (0)
- Tut... - real_jj 11:08:23 06/17/06 (2)
- The Poseur Posse.... - Todd Krieger 11:20:15 06/17/06 (1)
- See the questions addressed to you at the top of the board... - real_jj 11:30:37 06/17/06 (0)
- Well, let's see. - real_jj 00:20:18 06/17/06 (3)
- Re: Well, let's see. - Todd Krieger 00:51:57 06/17/06 (2)
- Re: Well, let's see. - andy_c 08:44:44 06/17/06 (0)
- Todd, go get a sub-director at www.timecube.com - real_jj 00:54:25 06/17/06 (0)
- Don't confuse oversampling with dithering... - real_jj 14:21:05 06/16/06 (3)
- Sorry I wasn't trying to - Ted Smith 14:32:35 06/16/06 (2)
- Understood... - real_jj 14:50:44 06/16/06 (1)
- Agreed - Ted Smith 15:05:56 06/16/06 (0)
- I see your point - tunenut 14:19:30 06/16/06 (0)
- Nope... - real_jj 14:08:31 06/16/06 (0)