Talking about various recordings of this old warhorse may or may not be of any interest to anybody else, but I have been listening lately to several of my recordings trying to figure out which one is best, and I sort of feel like expressing myself about it. It sort of started when I was trying to figure out which ones to load into my iPod. I was also wanted to figure out why the Carlos Kleiber version is so widely held to be one of the best. The versions I have been listening to are the Kleiber, the 3 DG Karajan recordings plus the 66 video on Youtube, the four Solti versions, several Toscanini ('20, '33, '39, '52), Bohm, various Furtwangler versions, Wand, Norrington, Weller, Rattle, and Gardiner. I have had these for years and heard them countless times, but this was the first time that I have ever listened to them side by side over an over in a short period of time to figure out their various strengths and weaknesses.I am going to focus mainly on the first movement, but I also have some comments about the whole symphony when I get to what I think is the best performance. The first main issue is whether to go fast or slow. All the versions I have seem to get through the first movement in either a few seconds over 7 minutes (assuming the exposition repeat) or somewhere around 8 1/4 to 8 1/2 minutes. Try as I might, I cannot get much satisfaction out of the over 8 minute versions. To me, the first movement has got to be fast, crisp, clear, but still weighty, Not even Furtwangler gets it done for me with the slow, weighty, ponderous approach. So I eliminate Bohm, Solti, Furtwangler, Weller. Kleiber, Karajan, Toscanini, Gardiner, Norrington, Wand, and Rattle all take the first movement at about the Beethoven metronome marking. This is essential for generating the appropriate level of fire and passion. I want it to blaze. So how to rank the fast ones?
I used to think, the faster the better--until I heard Wand and Toscanini '52. The problem with Wand is partly the recording, which is so over-resonant that too much detail and crispness of the attacks are missing in action. And somehow, even though it is big sounding with the resonant acoustic, it somehow sounds light weight. So if you go fast, you have still got to make it weighty. The impact of the '52 Toscanini is marred for me because the quarter notes of the four note patterns of the main cadences of the movement are always so shortened and clipped--especially the forth and final note in each of them. It greatly reduces the necessary heft of the movement. The '39 version is much better, with a good balance of fire and weight, without the clipping of the quarter notes. I have a '33 version that is ok, but it leaves out the exposition repeat, which I think is needed. The Karajan versions seem all pretty similar to each other for me, but the recording quality got worse in the later recordings. The '63 version has a little tape hiss and congestion in the loud passages, but it is the clearest of the lot and. The '77 is so resonant that the detail is a little blurred, and the '83 is very ugly, opaque digital sound the seriously clouds the detail. There actually are some inner voices in this symphony, and it really helps to be able to hear them. I like the Karajan versions very much. For a long time I could not see (or hear) why they were not as highly regarded as Kleiber. They seemed pretty similar in fact. But somehow they are not quite as perfect. Part of the problem is clarity let down by recording quality. The very beginning of the '77 version is slightly not clear--I can't tell whether its blurred ensemble or muddy recording, but the first statement of main motiv is not quite clear. The best Karajan version I have heard is the '66 video on Youtube. It is faster than the studio recordings, but more precise and exciting. But Karajan does not quite get the metaphysical truth of the work that Kleiber gets so perfectly Norrington and Gardiner are great for allowing the inner voices and parts to be heard because of the smaller string sections. They are exciting but a little too light weight for me. Solti finally got the fact that this movement needs to go fast for his last version, which was from a concert with the Vienna Phil. There was a PBS show with a Chicago Symphony performance of the 5th at the fast speed, featuring Solti yammering on about how he had discovered that Beethoven metronome markings could actually be followed. I was stunned, because he was talking as though this was news. This was in the early 90's. How had he missed what Norrington had been doing for a decade, and Toscanini had done a half century ago?!!
The Kleiber really is the best, period. I listened to these versions over and over before coming to this conclusion. It is now on my short list of almost absolutely perfect recordings. It has it all. Fire, passion, clarity, weight, form, structure, shaping, phrasing, accents perfectly placed, perfect playing with the VPO. What really distinguishes the performance, however, is the metaphysical truth, spirituality, pathos, agony, ecstasy, hope, triumph and exaltation that is not oblivious to the struggle that was required to get there!!! There are passages in this recording that I are almost too overwhelming to bare.
Well, I needed to get that off my chest. Thanks for indulging me.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Topic - Beethoven's 5th Symphony - Tadlo 13:25:29 05/11/07 (77)
- Yet a few more comments- Klemperer, and a bit more. - jsm 12:44:52 05/23/07 (0)
- Top 3 in no particular order.... - TWB 00:20:27 05/18/07 (0)
- Osmo Vanska live with the BBC Scottish Symphony - BarneyT 17:15:46 05/16/07 (1)
- he is discussed often in SACD forum, and there are... - docw 14:05:48 05/17/07 (0)
- Here's the best video of all..... - TGR 13:58:14 05/14/07 (3)
- Will we ever hear that music in the same way again??? - Tadlo 20:05:23 05/15/07 (0)
- When I Saw the Beginning..... - Todd Krieger 19:28:25 05/14/07 (0)
- Just Wonderful! [nt] - Chris from Lafayette 16:40:45 05/14/07 (0)
- Random thoughts: Boulez, Abbado, Klemp - tlyyra 05:24:23 05/13/07 (3)
- Boulez slow, precise, weighty, clear . . . - Pat D 18:27:38 05/14/07 (2)
- Re: Boulez slow, precise, weighty, clear . . . - tlyyra 02:04:53 05/16/07 (1)
- Re: Boulez slow, precise, weighty, clear . . . - Pat D 16:09:23 05/17/07 (0)
- I'd like the Kleiber recording better. . . - Chris from Lafayette 14:59:03 05/12/07 (7)
- Thanks for setting the record straight about - BarneyT 12:34:29 05/13/07 (1)
- Re: Thanks for setting the record straight about - Chris from Lafayette 16:18:41 05/13/07 (0)
- It ain't a Lyrita, but the sound of my Kleiber LP certainly doesn't restrict enjoyment. nt - Rick W 08:39:32 05/13/07 (1)
- More power to you. . . - Chris from Lafayette 10:33:22 05/13/07 (0)
- The Kleiber sounds a LOT better on LP... - C.B. 08:32:20 05/13/07 (2)
- But it's not just a CD problem - Chris from Lafayette 10:30:06 05/13/07 (0)
- agreed, luckily it's one of the best-recorded DG's I've heard: lot's of bloom and warmth, no edginess. (nt) - jdaniel 09:27:10 05/13/07 (0)
- Re: Beethoven's 5th Symphony - Ears 12:21:53 05/12/07 (0)
- Rather than talking about "the best"... - C.B. 09:22:50 05/12/07 (0)
- The BEST performance is... - clarkjohnsen 09:05:30 05/12/07 (8)
- What label/what orchestra - TGR 09:56:27 05/13/07 (3)
- Re: What label/what orchestra - sjb 10:10:06 05/13/07 (2)
- Does this one look like the same performance? - TGR 20:59:37 05/13/07 (1)
- Well... - sjb 21:37:14 05/13/07 (0)
- Re: The BEST performance is... - tlyyra 04:43:38 05/13/07 (0)
- Just listened to the Scherchen. - sjb 16:54:34 05/12/07 (1)
- Last night I listened to the Scherchen again myself, and... - clarkjohnsen 11:19:16 05/13/07 (0)
- Re: The BEST performance is... - Tadlo 12:10:03 05/12/07 (0)
- Re: Beethoven's 5th Symphony - JDL-N 06:58:33 05/12/07 (1)
- Re: Beethoven's 5th Symphony - rbolaw 08:10:37 05/12/07 (0)
- Karl Bohm - Todd Krieger 00:48:52 05/12/07 (1)
- Re: Karl Bohm - Tadlo 05:08:18 05/12/07 (0)
- interesting post - padreken 23:05:34 05/11/07 (1)
- Re: interesting post - Tadlo 05:19:36 05/12/07 (0)
- Kleiber for me! - jimbill 21:24:50 05/11/07 (3)
- father or son? - docw 21:53:03 05/11/07 (2)
- Father for me. - sjb 22:00:27 05/11/07 (1)
- Me too, mos def! nt - clarkjohnsen 07:47:40 05/12/07 (0)
- It is simply impossible to make a fair overview of performances. - sser2 16:37:08 05/11/07 (1)
- Re: It is simply impossible to make a fair overview of performances. - Tadlo 20:29:03 05/11/07 (0)
- We each evidently have widely differing musical preferences and priorities... - feet's too big 15:33:49 05/11/07 (21)
- Re: We each evidently have widely differing musical preferences and priorities... - Todd Krieger 01:04:46 05/12/07 (16)
- no, Szell Concertgebouw and HvK 62 - docw 22:02:22 05/12/07 (0)
- Re: We each evidently have widely differing musical preferences and priorities... - Tadlo 04:59:38 05/12/07 (14)
- other than the ritard at the end of 1st movement, ... - docw 12:59:22 05/14/07 (4)
- Re: other than the ritard at the end of 1st movement, ... - Tadlo 18:51:20 05/15/07 (1)
- Everyone has their preferences... - docw 20:15:49 05/15/07 (0)
- Re: other than the ritard at the end of 1st movement, ... - Todd Krieger 19:58:13 05/14/07 (1)
- I'm old, but... - docw 09:29:16 05/15/07 (0)
- Re: We each evidently have widely differing musical preferences and priorities... - Todd Krieger 15:41:48 05/12/07 (8)
- Re: We each evidently have widely differing musical preferences and priorities... - Tadlo 19:22:45 05/13/07 (7)
- Re: We each evidently have widely differing musical preferences and priorities... - Todd Krieger 23:48:40 05/13/07 (6)
- Re: We each evidently have widely differing musical preferences and priorities... - Tadlo 05:30:59 05/14/07 (5)
- Re: We each evidently have widely differing musical preferences and priorities... - Todd Krieger 19:38:11 05/14/07 (0)
- still reading the thread... - docw 08:56:07 05/14/07 (3)
- Re: still reading the thread... - Todd Krieger 19:45:28 05/14/07 (2)
- people get too hot imo nt - docw 10:00:12 05/15/07 (0)
- Re: still reading the thread... - Tadlo 20:36:41 05/14/07 (0)
- Re: We each evidently have widely differing musical preferences and priorities... - Tadlo 20:43:35 05/11/07 (2)
- Awesome posts Tadlo... - SE 05:13:29 05/12/07 (1)
- Re: Awesome posts Tadlo... - Tadlo 05:36:15 05/12/07 (0)
- others have commented on C Kleiber/VPO.... - docw 15:44:24 05/11/07 (0)
- You pays your money and takes your chances... - TGR 14:45:53 05/11/07 (0)
- Re: Beethoven's 5th Symphony - Brian Cheney 14:32:10 05/11/07 (1)
- Re: Beethoven's 5th Symphony - Tadlo 05:16:58 05/12/07 (0)
- impressive review - docw 14:29:24 05/11/07 (6)
- another Szell - Tadlo 06:24:19 05/12/07 (2)
- maybe the one on dvd - docw 21:51:31 05/12/07 (1)
- Re: maybe the one on dvd - Tadlo 19:15:19 05/13/07 (0)
- Re: impressive review - Tadlo 20:23:04 05/11/07 (2)
- We're mirroring each other some... - docw 21:50:40 05/11/07 (1)
- Re: We're mirroring each other some... - Tadlo 05:11:39 05/12/07 (0)
- Fair enough. You should also check out Reiner... - SE 14:06:50 05/11/07 (0)
- Re: Beethoven's 5th Symphony - jazzedup 13:59:04 05/11/07 (1)
- Re: Beethoven's 5th Symphony - Tadlo 05:29:48 05/12/07 (0)