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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: You are asking for a reality test posted by tomservo on June 20, 2006 at 10:19:44:
Tomservo you start by stating I said “Dan and tomservo want to pretend that solidstate components don't distort, but they do! Hence solidstate components, just like tubed components add imparted distortions that color the music.†which is true. Then you add... Actually, I have not taken that position at all.I'll accept that as true representation of your postion. But I felt you implied what in this post:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/prophead/messages/19984.html
While you constantly refered to the many components in tubed amps coloring the music, you quite conveniently failed to mention anything coloring a solidstate amp. All amps have distortion, hence all amps color the music. This is precisely the reason why we are never fooled into believing we are hearing live music when we hear a stereo when we pass by someones open window and the stereo is blasting.
To be honest with you have no desire to go through all I would need to do to run your reality test above, sorry.
I believe you are missing the one of the main points I was trying to make. It's quite understandable though because 1)I'm not technically proficient so I have a very difficult time putting into words the points I'm trying to make and 2) This is a very difficult topic.
My point-of-view in a nutshell is this: Todays accepted standard tests for measuring a components performance are NOT measuring what the ear/brain combo uses when deciding what sound "musical" or realistic. Even your complicated tests above, where one would attempt to discover any signal coming from the second amplifier and speaker to "see" what stuff the amp under test adds or subtracts while amplifying the signal. Is in my opinion not relevant in determining what the ear/brain combo uses when deciding what sound "musical" or realistic.
The plain truth is this. Todays accepted measurements don't correlate what's measured with what's heard. This is evidenced quite clearly by solidstate amps measuring good while they sound poorly & cause listener fatigue. Yet at the same time while SET's are measuring poor they sounding good and promote extended listening sessions. This IMHO negates what your tests above show or what todays typical tests measure.
It's my opinion that these tests are unacceptable for testing an audio components ability to replicate music realistically/musically.
Why do I believe this? Well for starters in terms of the “perfect†amplifier, where there is no audible residual difference signal left to amplify, I know few, if any SET amps would pass this test, while many solidstate amps would achieve considerably better results. But that only brings us right back to todays accepted measurements don't correlate what's measured with what's heard.I believe the test that WILL correlate what's measured with what's heard will be found when scientist and audio designers learn how to measure "these sounds" Dieter refers to in his interview. It's possible "these sounds" are one of the greatest influences on which few drops are saved, when the ear/brain combo both semi-conciously & semi-unconciously decides when finally reducing a swimming pool of information in music down to a few drops to describe what we hear, like Real JJ described. Yes, Tom this is certainly possible and it needs to be studied and either proven or disproven as an idea. But this cannot be done until scientists and audio designers learn how to measure "these sounds."
I know that it's also possible that "these sounds" aren't the holy grail as well, but until scientists and audio designers open their minds, until people stop pretending todays accepted audio tests are sufficient, until we have a definitive test that correlates accurately what's been measured with what's been heard, IMHO only a quack would outright dismiss "these sounds" and the POSSIBILITY that they could finally lead us to a test that correlates what's heard, with what's been measured.
This know this much, todays accepted audio test prove little if anything. There's such a thing as musicality, which Dieter refers to as "these sounds" and if and when they are finally measured we could possibly have the first test that honestly correlates what been measured with what's been heard.
None of will know until we try...
Thetubeguy1954
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Follow Ups
- Re: You are asking for a reality test - thetubeguy1954 14:08:58 06/20/06 (4)
- "Todays accepted standard tests for measuring." Accepted by whom? There's the problem! - clarkjohnsen 09:36:05 06/21/06 (3)
- But you don't have an Alternative! - Dan Banquer 13:33:38 06/22/06 (0)
- Bravo Clark! - thetubeguy1954 06:48:11 06/22/06 (1)
- So you are comparing yourself to - Pat D 08:01:54 06/29/06 (0)
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