Call BS all you want, most [honest] speaker designers will tell you the same thing - John Ashman

Follow Ups Full Thread

Topic - Watt/Puppy break-in - anthonyh 10:52:04 11/09/06 (114)

I guess my speakers will never "break in". - The Real Dick Hertz 11:04:58 11/11/06 (0)

When is over breaking-in? - jimbill 22:06:20 11/10/06 (3)

I can think of TWO parts that never finish breaking in. - Quiet Earth 21:59:48 11/11/06 (2)

Re: I can think of TWO parts that never finish breaking in. - theaudiohobby 05:09:18 11/15/06 (1)

" how does the circuit designer account for a component that keeps changing?" - Quiet Earth 16:15:07 11/15/06 (0)

I would suggest following the manufacturer's recs... - mkuller 14:03:17 11/10/06 (0)

John Ashman has a point... - docw 09:32:01 11/10/06 (1)

I know.......... - Laugh A Minute 14:02:15 11/10/06 (0)

For-bloody-ever!!!! - Sordidman 09:26:44 11/10/06 (10)

Re: For-bloody-ever!!!! - anthonyh 11:30:18 11/10/06 (9)

Sarcastic? Maybe! Hostile, nah..... - John Ashman 08:14:54 11/11/06 (7)

If it's broken in - Sordidman 11:11:58 11/11/06 (6)

Well, I just happen to have a lot of experience with this.... - John Ashman 16:32:54 11/11/06 (5)

Zero experience + big speculation, = one wrong man! - Sordidman 08:38:43 11/13/06 (1)

So....peaks/dips and distortion isn't audible if the speaker is expensive enough?!? (nt) - John Ashman 10:30:11 11/13/06 (0)

You sell shitty NHT speakers. Shut it. - ronjohn 05:19:59 11/12/06 (2)

Re: You sell shitty NHT speakers. Shut it. - Brian Cheney 12:04:50 11/12/06 (0)

Yes, you're right, if higher distortion, less FR accuracy and poorer dispersion at a higher price = better :-) - John Ashman 06:57:49 11/12/06 (0)

AWESOME! - Sordidman 12:23:48 11/10/06 (0)

Re: Watt/Puppy break-in - DevilDawgMom 21:44:13 11/09/06 (1)

Re: Watt/Puppy break-in - STUART 08:00:18 11/10/06 (0)

Maybe not... - delaney@rea-alp.com 12:05:44 11/09/06 (1)

If it's a tube, *maybe*. If SS, it's a defective design and they know it (nt) - John Ashman 19:54:14 11/09/06 (1)

I hate to say this but..... - John Ashman 11:54:47 11/09/06 (90)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - anthonyh 05:54:12 11/10/06 (5)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - John Ashman 08:20:14 11/10/06 (2)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - norfish 10:27:39 11/10/06 (1)

Maybe but.... - John Ashman 08:06:19 11/11/06 (0)

Copious notes ?!!? - Tom Brennan 07:50:58 11/10/06 (1)

Hey, how are you going to observe your break in or enjoy music without copious notes? (nt) - John Ashman 07:59:21 11/10/06 (0)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - morricab 03:28:26 11/10/06 (5)

It doesn't have to be audible to an adult to be fatiguing (nt) - John Ashman 08:07:35 11/11/06 (0)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - Soundmind 07:28:19 11/10/06 (3)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - morricab 08:59:47 11/10/06 (2)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - Soundmind 09:40:58 11/10/06 (1)

Excellent post! -t - Sordidman 09:28:31 11/10/06 (0)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - Ozzy 12:07:59 11/09/06 (77)

I find most drivers I use need breakin - Kloss 09:48:46 11/10/06 (0)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - MDavis 00:12:56 11/10/06 (7)

I think it was Kal Rubison that said.... - John Ashman 08:23:48 11/10/06 (4)

'cause nobody wants to think 'ah crap.. there goes $10k on wilson speaks..' (nt!) - stuck.wilson@gmail.com 14:36:04 11/10/06 (2)

Re:You weren't "stuck" with "wilsons", were you? * - Sophisticated One 20:18:22 11/11/06 (1)

Re:You weren't "stuck" with "wilsons", were you? * - stuck.wilson@gmail.com 19:03:20 11/14/06 (0)

Because they are - kavakidd 11:13:42 11/10/06 (0)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - Soundmind 07:34:47 11/10/06 (1)

Re: I hate to say this but..... - MDavis 17:57:37 11/11/06 (0)

Hogwash! - listen to John Ashman - Zipcord 16:25:57 11/09/06 (13)

Re: Hogwash! - listen to John Ashman - 20Hz 14:20:25 11/14/06 (1)

Don't break or never break in - take your pick - Zipcord 08:06:21 11/15/06 (0)

Your moniker says it all...... - Ozzy 16:29:27 11/09/06 (10)

Re: Your moniker says it all...... - Tom Brennan 16:46:14 11/09/06 (9)

You call it gullibility..... - Ozzy 17:19:24 11/09/06 (8)

Re: You call it gullibility..... - MDavis 00:38:45 11/10/06 (7)

wait a minute. - stuck.wilson@gmail.com 04:46:53 11/10/06 (6)

Re: wait a minute. - Tom Brennan 07:41:34 11/10/06 (5)

I didn't realize - E-Stat 19:42:22 11/10/06 (0)

ha ha ha... - Guth 15:23:34 11/10/06 (0)

mebbe more like 'overcaffeinated'! than drug addled.. but i gotcha - stuck.wilson@gmail.com 13:52:51 11/10/06 (2)

Re: mebbe more like 'overcaffeinated'! than drug addled.. but i gotcha - Tom Brennan 14:41:44 11/10/06 (1)

yep.. but that's the hallmark of a good design! - stuck.wilson@gmail.com 15:41:37 11/10/06 (0)

I agree with Ozzy - tommytube 15:23:19 11/09/06 (1)

You must have pretty sensitive ears... - The Real Dick Hertz 14:10:50 11/11/06 (0)

Call BS all you want, most [honest] speaker designers will tell you the same thing - John Ashman 12:37:08 11/09/06 (51)

Then may I assume that Richard Vandersteen is "dishonest"? /nt - Julien43 04:49:23 11/10/06 (1)

Maybe? What did he say? Keep your speakers til you get used to them? (nt) - John Ashman 07:09:52 11/10/06 (0)

I'm a professional speaker designer, and break-in is real - Jon Risch 17:25:10 11/09/06 (39)

Re: I'm a professional speaker designer, and break-in is real - anthonyh 11:38:52 11/14/06 (0)

Re: I'm a professional speaker designer, and break-in is real - mauimusicman 08:54:16 11/13/06 (0)

Re: I'm a professional speaker designer, and break-in is real - Soundmind 16:53:35 11/10/06 (1)

Re: I'm a professional speaker designer, and break-in is real - Jon Risch 23:26:10 11/10/06 (0)

"most of it occurs in the first 24-48 hours of playing time" = a gross exaggeration not supported by data - Richard BassNut Greene 08:59:06 11/10/06 (23)

None of your claims are supported by data - Jon Risch 23:32:41 11/10/06 (16)

Stating that 'I am a speaker expert' ... is definitely not providing data ... so it looks like I'll have to do this! - Richard BassNut Greene 09:05:36 11/11/06 (15)

My Reply - Jon Risch 21:48:16 11/20/06 (1)

PS - Jon Risch 10:05:29 11/21/06 (0)

Re: I have a question: - Sophisticated One 20:31:33 11/11/06 (1)

Why do customers think expensive wires make their stereo sound better ... - Richard BassNut Greene 08:15:17 11/14/06 (0)

Oh Richard, you are over the top again. - Jon Risch 10:34:17 11/11/06 (3)

Re: Oh Richard, you are over the top again. - mauimusicman 09:00:18 11/13/06 (0)

I'll save you some time: You know all about speakers & all the professional audio people I quoted know nothing! - Richard BassNut Greene 11:12:06 11/11/06 (0)

Don't waste your time responding (speakers are going to break-in unless the owner never uses them!) - Richard BassNut Greene 11:03:45 11/11/06 (0)

Speaker designer Paul S. Barton says "brain break-in" (getting used to new speakers) overwhelms driver break-in effects - Richard BassNut Greene 10:14:09 11/11/06 (0)

Audio consultant Dave Clark's AES paper says break-in can be completed in less than 1 minute - Richard BassNut Greene 09:57:58 11/11/06 (0)

Speaker designer John Dunlavy wrote that only 10 minutes of break-in is required - Richard BassNut Greene 09:57:28 11/11/06 (0)

Speaker design consultant Dick Pierce says break-in takes only seconds - Richard BassNut Greene 09:57:02 11/11/06 (0)

Seas driver FS declines 9.7% in first hour of break-in -- but only 1.3% more in second hour of break-in - Richard BassNut Greene 09:56:55 11/11/06 (0)

Seas driver Qts declines 14.3% in first minute of break-in -- but only 2.4% more in next two hours of break-in - Richard BassNut Greene 09:56:46 11/11/06 (1)

Re: Seas driver Qts declines 14.3% in first minute of break-in -- but only 2.4% more in next two hours of break-in - mauimusicman 09:06:24 11/13/06 (0)

Re: "most of it occurs in the first 24-48 hours of playing time" = a gross exaggeration not supported by data - asull 09:18:04 11/10/06 (5)

Dishonest engineer with an agenda (does a 10 second break-in test then jumps all the way to a 20 hour break-in test !) - Richard BassNut Greene 10:01:36 11/10/06 (4)

Re: Dishonest engineer with an agenda (does a 10 second break-in test then jumps all the way to a 20 hour break-in test - asull 10:52:21 11/10/06 (3)

The term "Dishonest" is entirely appropriate - Soundmind 18:12:15 11/10/06 (2)

Re: The term "Dishonest" is entirely appropriate - asull 19:16:27 11/10/06 (1)

a 10 second break-in test followed by a second measurement after 20 hours break in ... is either dishonest, or stupid - Richard BassNut Greene 10:28:11 11/11/06 (0)

Don't you think - Frihed89 01:56:24 11/10/06 (3)

Re: Don't you think - Jon Risch 23:04:41 11/10/06 (1)

Re: Well-balanced summation * - Sophisticated One 20:37:13 11/11/06 (0)

"It needs to break in" is saying "don't trust your ears, trust us" (nt) - John Ashman 07:20:29 11/10/06 (0)

I didn't say it wasn't "real" only that.... - John Ashman 17:58:17 11/09/06 (6)

Re: I didn't say it wasn't "real" only that.... - Jon Risch 22:59:14 11/10/06 (4)

You're still not exactly comparing apples to apples - Guth 09:26:56 11/11/06 (3)

Re: You're still not exactly comparing apples to apples - Jon Risch 10:32:09 11/11/06 (2)

Jon, do you believe speakers go from dreadful to incredible via breakin? (nt) - John Ashman 17:00:40 11/12/06 (1)

Re: Jon, do you believe speakers go from dreadful to incredible via breakin? (nt) - Jon Risch 19:31:07 11/12/06 (0)

Re: I didn't say it wasn't "real" only that.... - smargo 19:32:34 11/10/06 (0)

I can only speak from my experience - plantsman 16:27:03 11/09/06 (1)

Re: I can only speak from my experience - Ozzy 17:20:24 11/09/06 (0)

Regarding break-in - Guth 13:10:12 11/09/06 (6)

I did one quick experiment... - Jimmy C. 14:33:20 11/09/06 (3)

Re: I did one quick experiment... - Guth 15:08:39 11/09/06 (2)

As I pressed the "submit" button... - Jimmy C. 15:53:22 11/09/06 (1)

Re: As I pressed the "submit" button... - Tom Brennan 07:46:07 11/10/06 (0)

Re: Regarding break-in - ZooDog 14:00:31 11/09/06 (1)

I had a VAC 30/30 amp that was absolutely unlistenable at first - Triodeuser 17:54:41 11/09/06 (0)

Follow Ups

Call BS all you want, most [honest] speaker designers will tell you the same thing - John Ashman 12:37:08 11/09/06 (51)

Then may I assume that Richard Vandersteen is "dishonest"? /nt - Julien43 04:49:23 11/10/06 (1)

Maybe? What did he say? Keep your speakers til you get used to them? (nt) - John Ashman 07:09:52 11/10/06 (0)

I'm a professional speaker designer, and break-in is real - Jon Risch 17:25:10 11/09/06 (39)

Re: I'm a professional speaker designer, and break-in is real - anthonyh 11:38:52 11/14/06 (0)

Re: I'm a professional speaker designer, and break-in is real - mauimusicman 08:54:16 11/13/06 (0)

Re: I'm a professional speaker designer, and break-in is real - Soundmind 16:53:35 11/10/06 (1)

Re: I'm a professional speaker designer, and break-in is real - Jon Risch 23:26:10 11/10/06 (0)

"most of it occurs in the first 24-48 hours of playing time" = a gross exaggeration not supported by data - Richard BassNut Greene 08:59:06 11/10/06 (23)

None of your claims are supported by data - Jon Risch 23:32:41 11/10/06 (16)

Stating that 'I am a speaker expert' ... is definitely not providing data ... so it looks like I'll have to do this! - Richard BassNut Greene 09:05:36 11/11/06 (15)

My Reply - Jon Risch 21:48:16 11/20/06 (1)

PS - Jon Risch 10:05:29 11/21/06 (0)

Re: I have a question: - Sophisticated One 20:31:33 11/11/06 (1)

Why do customers think expensive wires make their stereo sound better ... - Richard BassNut Greene 08:15:17 11/14/06 (0)

Oh Richard, you are over the top again. - Jon Risch 10:34:17 11/11/06 (3)

Re: Oh Richard, you are over the top again. - mauimusicman 09:00:18 11/13/06 (0)

I'll save you some time: You know all about speakers & all the professional audio people I quoted know nothing! - Richard BassNut Greene 11:12:06 11/11/06 (0)

Don't waste your time responding (speakers are going to break-in unless the owner never uses them!) - Richard BassNut Greene 11:03:45 11/11/06 (0)

Speaker designer Paul S. Barton says "brain break-in" (getting used to new speakers) overwhelms driver break-in effects - Richard BassNut Greene 10:14:09 11/11/06 (0)

Audio consultant Dave Clark's AES paper says break-in can be completed in less than 1 minute - Richard BassNut Greene 09:57:58 11/11/06 (0)

Speaker designer John Dunlavy wrote that only 10 minutes of break-in is required - Richard BassNut Greene 09:57:28 11/11/06 (0)

Speaker design consultant Dick Pierce says break-in takes only seconds - Richard BassNut Greene 09:57:02 11/11/06 (0)

Seas driver FS declines 9.7% in first hour of break-in -- but only 1.3% more in second hour of break-in - Richard BassNut Greene 09:56:55 11/11/06 (0)

Seas driver Qts declines 14.3% in first minute of break-in -- but only 2.4% more in next two hours of break-in - Richard BassNut Greene 09:56:46 11/11/06 (1)

Re: Seas driver Qts declines 14.3% in first minute of break-in -- but only 2.4% more in next two hours of break-in - mauimusicman 09:06:24 11/13/06 (0)

Re: "most of it occurs in the first 24-48 hours of playing time" = a gross exaggeration not supported by data - asull 09:18:04 11/10/06 (5)

Dishonest engineer with an agenda (does a 10 second break-in test then jumps all the way to a 20 hour break-in test !) - Richard BassNut Greene 10:01:36 11/10/06 (4)

Re: Dishonest engineer with an agenda (does a 10 second break-in test then jumps all the way to a 20 hour break-in test - asull 10:52:21 11/10/06 (3)

The term "Dishonest" is entirely appropriate - Soundmind 18:12:15 11/10/06 (2)

Re: The term "Dishonest" is entirely appropriate - asull 19:16:27 11/10/06 (1)

a 10 second break-in test followed by a second measurement after 20 hours break in ... is either dishonest, or stupid - Richard BassNut Greene 10:28:11 11/11/06 (0)

Don't you think - Frihed89 01:56:24 11/10/06 (3)

Re: Don't you think - Jon Risch 23:04:41 11/10/06 (1)

Re: Well-balanced summation * - Sophisticated One 20:37:13 11/11/06 (0)

"It needs to break in" is saying "don't trust your ears, trust us" (nt) - John Ashman 07:20:29 11/10/06 (0)

I didn't say it wasn't "real" only that.... - John Ashman 17:58:17 11/09/06 (6)

Re: I didn't say it wasn't "real" only that.... - Jon Risch 22:59:14 11/10/06 (4)

You're still not exactly comparing apples to apples - Guth 09:26:56 11/11/06 (3)

Re: You're still not exactly comparing apples to apples - Jon Risch 10:32:09 11/11/06 (2)

Jon, do you believe speakers go from dreadful to incredible via breakin? (nt) - John Ashman 17:00:40 11/12/06 (1)

Re: Jon, do you believe speakers go from dreadful to incredible via breakin? (nt) - Jon Risch 19:31:07 11/12/06 (0)

Re: I didn't say it wasn't "real" only that.... - smargo 19:32:34 11/10/06 (0)

I can only speak from my experience - plantsman 16:27:03 11/09/06 (1)

Re: I can only speak from my experience - Ozzy 17:20:24 11/09/06 (0)

Regarding break-in - Guth 13:10:12 11/09/06 (6)

I did one quick experiment... - Jimmy C. 14:33:20 11/09/06 (3)

Re: I did one quick experiment... - Guth 15:08:39 11/09/06 (2)

As I pressed the "submit" button... - Jimmy C. 15:53:22 11/09/06 (1)

Re: As I pressed the "submit" button... - Tom Brennan 07:46:07 11/10/06 (0)

Re: Regarding break-in - ZooDog 14:00:31 11/09/06 (1)

I had a VAC 30/30 amp that was absolutely unlistenable at first - Triodeuser 17:54:41 11/09/06 (0)