In Reply to: Only golden ears have closed minds -- all objective audiophiles started out as golden ears posted by Richard BassNut Greene on June 1, 2006 at 14:25:39:
that you would toss out 20 years of (presumably) pleasurable experience as a result of failing to identify differences in cables and/or components under controlled conditions.If your 20 years as a subjectivist is anything like my 40 years as a subjectivist has been, you would never choose a component or cable under circumstances that would even closely resemble the typical DBT.
If I change something in my system (something I rarely do any more) it is because I have lived with the new component for several weeks and found that over time and from recording to recording I was noticing consistent improvement in one or more areas that seem to affect my enjoyment of listening – such thing as sound stage, localization of voices and instruments, rendering of detail, tonal balance, etc. (Note: phono cartridges is possibly the one exception where I have had to make choices based on pure faith).
But the most important factor in my decision to make a change in my system is the experience of greater enjoyment of listening with the new component in the system.
DBTs in my mind are wholly irrelevant to me as an audiophile. I base my decisions on my own hedonistic pleasure factor. If a change will improve my pleasure and the change is within my means, then I go for it.
Now as a subjectivist, if I attempt to publish a claim that one component is better or different than another without being able to substantiate that claim through application of scientifically valid testing (in audio that will likely be DBTs) then I’m leaving myself wide open for attack.
But my goal as an audiophile is not to make claims (I’ll leave that to the reviewers – whom I gave up reading many years ago). Rather my goal is my own personal enjoyment, and I can’t imagine why I would ever want to give up the opportunity to improve my own enjoyment of my system just because I couldn’t detect differences while under an “audio microscopeâ€.
____________________"To dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free."
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Follow Ups
- I find it curious..... - Phil Tower 13:09:43 06/03/06 (98)
- You ignore the real issue -- no one else cares how you spend your money -- it's your advice that affects others - Richard BassNut Greene 14:36:10 06/05/06 (2)
- Re: You ignore the real issue -- no one else cares how you spend your money -- it's your advice that affects others - Phil Tower 16:19:04 06/05/06 (1)
- Eye Rack - Richard BassNut Greene 09:49:01 06/09/06 (0)
- Ah...the unproven long term listening excuse - Caymus 20:48:06 06/03/06 (26)
- Ear training - rditmars 08:53:27 06/05/06 (8)
- You’re confusing PITCH MEMORY with SOUND MEMORY - Caymus 14:31:02 06/05/06 (1)
- Re: You’re confusing PITCH MEMORY with SOUND MEMORY - rditmars 18:41:10 06/05/06 (0)
- Training - real_jj 11:53:12 06/05/06 (0)
- Re: Ear training - Dan Banquer 10:19:57 06/05/06 (4)
- You bet... - real_jj 12:12:37 06/05/06 (3)
- Re: You bet... - Dan Banquer 12:40:53 06/05/06 (2)
- Curiously enough... - real_jj 22:09:44 06/05/06 (1)
- Re: Curiously enough... - Dan Banquer 09:00:50 06/06/06 (0)
- Re: Ah...the unproven long term listening excuse - thetubeguy1954 08:09:24 06/05/06 (0)
- Proof is fleeting! - soulfood 07:43:36 06/04/06 (11)
- Why is so hard for some audiophiles to understand - Caymus 19:52:13 06/04/06 (1)
- There's a distinction between understanding and agreeing. - soulfood 09:24:25 06/05/06 (0)
- Re: Proof is fleeting! - Phil Tower 08:11:34 06/04/06 (8)
- Re: Proof is fleeting! - soulfood 08:27:45 06/04/06 (7)
- Re: Time is fleeting! - Madness Takes Control! - real_jj 12:00:30 06/05/06 (6)
- Wrong address, this is an 'audio' asylum. (nt) - soulfood 14:35:56 06/05/06 (5)
- It's astounding! - real_jj 18:17:26 06/05/06 (4)
- It may be too late. - soulfood 19:14:03 06/05/06 (3)
- Doctor! Who? - real_jj 22:10:10 06/05/06 (2)
- Whew! Welcome back. - soulfood 08:15:17 06/06/06 (1)
- I think it was the guy in the elevator... - real_jj 08:26:48 06/06/06 (0)
- Re: Ah...the unproven long term listening excuse - Phil Tower 07:41:05 06/04/06 (3)
- Err. AMEN - real_jj 12:01:40 06/05/06 (2)
- Re: Err. AMEN - Phil Tower 17:25:17 06/05/06 (1)
- Well, I do this for a living... - real_jj 12:36:32 06/06/06 (0)
- OMG he's back - Soundmind 14:42:33 06/03/06 (67)
- Some psychologists think that if people cannot tell in a short duration test whether the component has changed or not, - Norm 17:15:12 06/03/06 (22)
- Those are the Hyundai buyers - E-Stat 16:44:48 06/05/06 (3)
- Re: Those are the Hyundai buyers - kerr 05:15:10 06/07/06 (2)
- I see you have your priorities correctly sorted out. [nt] - Wellfed 08:49:15 06/07/06 (1)
- Well, if not "correctly", at least "sorted" - kerr 09:50:15 06/07/06 (0)
- Who are you talking about.... - real_jj 11:58:26 06/05/06 (16)
- If the shoe fits wear it. - Norm 15:22:40 06/05/06 (15)
- You mean I'm Galileo, and you're the Pope - real_jj 18:04:40 06/05/06 (14)
- If the shoe fits wear it. - Norm 18:10:11 06/05/06 (13)
- Is there a reason you lie and accuse me of scientific misconduct? - real_jj 18:19:08 06/05/06 (12)
- Okay, let us followup on the professional accusation crap. Tell me how I do so? - Norm 20:25:36 06/05/06 (10)
- More lies on the part of "Norm" - real_jj 22:17:19 06/05/06 (0)
- Don't make things up, Norm. - real_jj 22:15:09 06/05/06 (8)
- Get real! File a complaint on your webpage??? - Norm 06:44:33 06/06/06 (7)
- Don't lie, Norm. - real_jj 08:11:24 06/06/06 (6)
- Don't exagerate. What is the secret? nt - Norm 10:26:56 06/06/06 (5)
- S**t or get off the pot, Norm. - real_jj 13:24:20 06/06/06 (4)
- I cannot understand your perceptions of the scientific method; perhaps ignorance - Norm 15:11:55 06/06/06 (3)
- Sorry, accusing me of "ignorance" about the scientific method is another professional accusation - real_jj 15:34:32 06/06/06 (2)
- If you say so. - Norm 18:14:16 06/06/06 (1)
- Please explain how I can discount, using evidence, inadvertant self-influence in a sighted test. - real_jj 18:29:26 06/06/06 (0)
- With only *two* posts thus far regarding accusations - E-Stat 19:44:10 06/05/06 (0)
- Amen Brother (NT) - Phil Tower 07:43:47 06/04/06 (0)
- Re: OMG he's back - Phil Tower 16:51:47 06/03/06 (7)
- A lawyer who rejects scientific methods is.... - Soundmind 17:47:37 06/03/06 (6)
- Re: A lawyer who rejects scientific methods is.... - Phil Tower 08:05:32 06/04/06 (4)
- Re: A lawyer who rejects scientific methods is.... - Soundmind 08:27:30 06/04/06 (3)
- Re: A lawyer who rejects scientific methods is.... - Phil Tower 08:47:10 06/04/06 (2)
- Re: A lawyer who rejects scientific methods is.... - Soundmind 10:05:15 06/04/06 (1)
- Re: A lawyer who rejects scientific methods is.... - Phil Tower 14:30:38 06/04/06 (0)
- Re: "You seem to be a congenital arguer." - geoffkait 04:55:32 06/04/06 (0)
- Re: OMG he's back - rditmars 16:45:42 06/03/06 (35)
- DBTs don't have any time limits...except for the patience of the guy conducting it. All it has to be is fair. nt - Soundmind 17:49:20 06/03/06 (34)
- Re: DBTs don't have any time limits...except for the patience of the guy conducting it. All it has to be is fair. nt - okiemax 20:02:29 06/03/06 (33)
- Re: DBTs don't have any time limits...except for the patience of the guy conducting it. All it has to be is fair. nt - Soundmind 00:49:01 06/04/06 (32)
- Re: DBTs don't have any time limits...except for the patience of the guy conducting it. All it has to be is fair. nt - Phil Tower 08:27:56 06/04/06 (27)
- Re: DBTs don't have any time limits...except for the patience of the guy conducting it. All it has to be is fair. nt - Soundmind 08:39:06 06/04/06 (26)
- Re: DBTs don't have any time limits...except for the patience of the guy conducting it. All it has to be is fair. nt - Phil Tower 15:19:09 06/04/06 (0)
- What I believe (very long post) - Phil Tower 15:07:57 06/04/06 (24)
- You call that a long post? Risch once had one on AR which took 9 boards...and said nothing...as usual ;-) nt - Soundmind 17:19:13 06/04/06 (21)
- Don't get me started on Risch. That's when I really start to get myself in trouble around here. (NT) - Phil Tower 20:08:24 06/04/06 (20)
- You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Soundmind 11:23:05 06/05/06 (19)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Phil Tower 17:03:19 06/05/06 (13)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Pat D 20:29:47 06/05/06 (7)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Phil Tower 20:44:57 06/05/06 (6)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Soundmind 06:25:36 06/06/06 (5)
- Um, was that the fallacy of the excluded middle, soundmind? - real_jj 12:37:52 06/06/06 (3)
- you are absolutely correct - Soundmind 16:07:49 06/06/06 (2)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Phil Tower 10:17:43 06/06/06 (0)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Soundmind 18:00:02 06/05/06 (4)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Phil Tower 18:24:13 06/05/06 (1)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Soundmind 18:46:42 06/05/06 (0)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Soundmind 18:14:48 06/05/06 (1)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - john curl 10:58:53 06/09/06 (0)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Phil Tower 16:25:47 06/05/06 (4)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Soundmind 17:50:54 06/05/06 (3)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Phil Tower 18:12:50 06/05/06 (2)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Soundmind 18:39:36 06/05/06 (1)
- Re: You mean you really don't see eye to eye with Jon Risch? - Phil Tower 20:51:12 06/05/06 (0)
- Re: What I believe (very long post) - Soundmind 16:11:57 06/04/06 (1)
- Re: What I believe (very long post) - Phil Tower 20:05:52 06/04/06 (0)
- Re: DBTs don't have any time limits...except for the patience of the guy conducting it. All it has to be is fair. nt - okiemax 01:51:58 06/04/06 (3)
- Re: DBTs don't have any time limits...except for the patience of the guy conducting it. All it has to be is fair. nt - Soundmind 07:50:06 06/04/06 (2)
- My point : number of trials should be specified before a DBT begins - okiemax 09:57:26 06/04/06 (1)
- Why should the number of trials should be specified before a DBT begins? - Soundmind 15:49:07 06/05/06 (0)