This forum has turned into a lot of people bickering about the current set of digital tweaks (intellichip being the most obvious) so I want to start a technical discussion about digital tweks in general. From my perspective (electrical engineer, I do a lot of software but have also done a lot of large scale data acquisition measurement and analysis systems) a lot of these digital tweaks claim to do something with the data on the disc or improve the readability of this disc.My thoughts on this are:
1) Trying to change the data on the disc would generally be disastrous (except for upsampling with a damn fine digital filter - see threads from a couple of weeks ago :-)
2) In this day and age, getting the correct data off the disc on time is NO PROBLEM. Redbook is not the best format, but with the transports and buffering these days you do not need any tweaks to get the correct data off the disc in plenty of time for the clock pulse, even with a cheap player. The times I see data reading become a little unstable is when my computer DVD drive tries to extract audio data at 24x the strandard data rate. You get some errors then, but at 1X or 2X it is always perfect.So the real places for differentiation lie in the clock, filter, and analog circuits of the digital device.
The analog filters don't come into play much with up/oversampling since they operate far away from the audio band so drift with time (or differences between different players of the same model) are no longer an issue as their digital filters are 100% repeatable (well not 100% with ASRC but thats a different issue). The digital filter is where I see a very large differentiation in players.
If your disc has magnetic particles on it as it spins it will produce a varying magnetic field which will induce current in any wire/trace in its path. The motor will also produce varying magnetc and electric field but there is shielding between these and you other circuits, and generally there isn't beween the disc and circuits. This includes the clock and analog portions of your player, so jitter may be the result as well as some other analog distorions. Demagnitizing your discs may have some merit if you look at it this way (don't know if thats what a "clarifier" actually does but from the other posts it sounds like thats not what the inventor thinks it does).
If the "chip" claims to improve the reading of data, I have a hard time believing this would improve the sound since I don't think data reading is really a problem these days. Does it do something which prevents clock or analog circuit interference? (and the power supplies I consider part of the clock and analog circuits) I have no idea but if any improvements result I would think there is some effect in that realm instead of with improving data recovery.
Lets get a real technical discussion going about digital tweaks.
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Topic - Digital Tweaks and Audiophilia - macaque 05:32:57 05/15/05 (90)
- Re: Digital Tweaks and Audiophilia - Todd Krieger 13:33:16 05/21/05 (0)
- Mostly Jitter Related - Jon Risch 21:12:27 05/15/05 (53)
- HANG ON EVERYONE! Lets try again without so much bickering - macaque 08:57:39 05/20/05 (6)
- Re: HANG ON EVERYONE! Lets try again without so much bickering - Tom Dawson 14:43:54 05/20/05 (0)
- Re: HANG ON EVERYONE! Lets try again without so much bickering - Dan Banquer 09:48:30 05/20/05 (2)
- Vagarities of human hearing..... - unclestu52 11:33:27 05/20/05 (0)
- Re: HANG ON EVERYONE! Lets try again without so much bickering - macaque 10:48:08 05/20/05 (1)
- Thanks for getting us back on track - Commuteman 09:44:44 05/20/05 (1)
- Re: Thanks for getting us back on track - macaque 16:03:26 05/21/05 (0)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - macaque 16:54:02 05/16/05 (0)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Dan Banquer 08:47:22 05/16/05 (36)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Jon Risch 21:50:38 05/16/05 (35)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Steve Eddy 23:14:07 05/16/05 (34)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Jon Risch 17:14:46 05/17/05 (21)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Steve Eddy 19:19:57 05/17/05 (15)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Jon Risch 17:58:05 05/18/05 (13)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Atexanathome 18:22:04 05/19/05 (6)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Dan Banquer 05:42:58 05/20/05 (1)
- DAC architecture affects what comes out of the DAC when a particular jitter spectrum is applied - Atexanathome 15:52:38 05/20/05 (0)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Jon Risch 21:23:36 05/19/05 (3)
- Sorry, but this is an authoritative article by a digital expert that includes a bibliography - Atexanathome 16:25:11 05/20/05 (2)
- Re: Sorry, but this is an authoritative article by a digital expert that includes a bibliography - macaque 02:21:29 05/21/05 (1)
- Re: Sorry, but this is an authoritative article by a digital expert that includes a bibliography - Atexanathome 05:41:22 05/21/05 (0)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Dan Banquer 03:17:39 05/19/05 (1)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Jon Risch 21:27:49 05/19/05 (0)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Steve Eddy 21:27:23 05/18/05 (3)
- Hey Steve... - Commuteman 09:56:25 05/20/05 (0)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Jon Risch 21:28:40 05/19/05 (1)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Steve Eddy 22:12:47 05/19/05 (0)
- Where is this from? - Commuteman 14:45:45 05/18/05 (0)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Dan Banquer 17:55:46 05/17/05 (4)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Jon Risch 21:31:17 05/18/05 (3)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Dan Banquer 09:28:04 05/19/05 (2)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Jon Risch 21:21:29 05/19/05 (1)
- You really don't have a clue, do you? - Mudcat 03:58:16 05/20/05 (0)
- Doesn't that depend on it being continuous? - Commuteman 16:45:41 05/17/05 (10)
- Re: Doesn't that depend on it being continuous? - Steve Eddy 19:30:08 05/17/05 (2)
- Re: Doesn't that depend on it being continuous? - Commuteman 10:21:50 05/18/05 (1)
- Re: Doesn't that depend on it being continuous? - Dan Banquer 11:31:27 05/18/05 (0)
- Re: Doesn't that depend on it being continuous? - Dan Banquer 17:50:50 05/17/05 (6)
- Of course; it's just not visible in a spectrum analyzer - Commuteman 18:12:09 05/17/05 (5)
- Re: Of course; it's just not visible in a spectrum analyzer - Steve Eddy 19:35:05 05/17/05 (1)
- If they are non-repetitive - Commuteman 10:47:06 05/18/05 (0)
- Re: Of course; it's just not visible in a spectrum analyzer - andy_c 18:48:38 05/17/05 (2)
- We're talking a little at cross-purposes... - Commuteman 14:55:05 05/18/05 (1)
- Re: We're talking a little at cross-purposes... - andy_c 18:08:06 05/18/05 (0)
- Re: Mostly Jitter Related - Dan Banquer 03:29:02 05/17/05 (0)
- Audio analysis - jbmcb 06:27:47 05/16/05 (7)
- Further Reply - Jon Risch 17:22:04 05/17/05 (0)
- Re: Audio analysis - Jon Risch 21:55:16 05/16/05 (1)
- Fancy lab - jbmcb 05:43:20 05/17/05 (0)
- Re: Audio analysis - Steve Eddy 10:48:06 05/16/05 (0)
- Re: Audio analysis - Dan Banquer 10:43:08 05/16/05 (2)
- Re: Digital Tweaks and Audiophilia - Jacques 14:48:39 05/15/05 (2)
- "So a complete clock enhancement system is" What?,,, - Djhymn 23:39:48 05/18/05 (0)
- Mechanical support. - Al Sekela 10:17:18 05/16/05 (0)
- "I don't think data reading is really a problem these days." No one ever has! - clarkjohnsen 12:50:38 05/15/05 (26)
- Re: "I don't think data reading is really a problem these days." No one ever has! - macaque 16:44:38 05/15/05 (25)
- I have no problems with what you say, except for... - clarkjohnsen 09:10:35 05/16/05 (24)
- Re: I have no problems with what you say, except for... - macaque 17:10:22 05/16/05 (23)
- "Perfect copy." Hmm... - clarkjohnsen 08:01:38 05/17/05 (22)
- Re: "Perfect copy." Hmm... - macaque 08:22:58 05/17/05 (1)
- I believe you, and not Mr. Austin, are correct. However... - clarkjohnsen 11:56:13 05/17/05 (0)
- 2 disks with identical data MUST sound the same. - Jim Austin 08:14:15 05/17/05 (19)
- Nope. - Jon Risch 17:24:17 05/17/05 (6)
- He has retracted his absolutist stance. And wisely so. nt - clarkjohnsen 08:14:05 05/18/05 (2)
- Right. - Jim Austin 11:59:34 05/18/05 (1)
- That's OK, PhDs don't usually express themselves well anyway. - clarkjohnsen 16:02:54 05/18/05 (0)
- I don't get it... - Jim Austin 03:53:37 05/18/05 (2)
- OK - Jon Risch 21:14:15 05/18/05 (1)
- Yes, I do agree - Jim Austin 04:15:46 05/19/05 (0)
- The fact that they usually don't highlights the importance of.... - Tom Dawson 13:52:17 05/17/05 (5)
- Interesting... - Jim Austin 13:58:31 05/17/05 (4)
- So Jim.... - Commuteman 17:20:08 05/17/05 (2)
- Re: So Jim.... - Jim Austin 03:49:38 05/18/05 (1)
- Sure, but it's a big if........ - Commuteman 15:00:38 05/18/05 (0)
- Re: Interesting... - Tom Dawson 14:23:52 05/17/05 (0)
- The Academy has spoken. The rest of us MUSTcower. nt - clarkjohnsen 11:57:28 05/17/05 (5)
- Very sad Clark - Jim Austin 13:43:59 05/17/05 (1)
- No, actually, you brought your affiliation up first. That's how I knew, fer godssake. Sad, indeed... but not for me. - clarkjohnsen 08:09:33 05/18/05 (0)
- Oooohhh..what a resounding technical comeback...nt - jneutron 12:01:29 05/17/05 (2)
- I see you are cowering. nt - clarkjohnsen 12:17:34 05/17/05 (1)
- quivering....big time...what, run outta technical words to gak up?nt - jneutron 12:57:09 05/17/05 (0)
- Bravo!....(long) - unclestu52 11:52:12 05/15/05 (3)
- further thoughts....and questions.... - unclestu52 14:24:41 05/15/05 (2)
- Re: further thoughts....and questions.... - macaque 16:56:05 05/16/05 (1)
- I wonder why no one else has tried or replied? - unclestu52 16:16:13 05/17/05 (0)
- Mr. Chip - KlausR. 07:12:50 05/15/05 (0)