Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics.

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Re: Yes, but

Posted by kurt s on June 17, 2003 at 22:30:40

In Reply to: Yes, but posted by Phil Tower on June 17, 2003 at 09:31:25:

"The real question, diplomatic or not, seems to me whether you can tell him at what level of DA you are not able to hear."

No. He cannot support his theory that a sonic difference can't be heard and that's all I state here. So the problem is somehow all mine in your view? And why, pray tell, is this the "real question"?

"I infer from your statement that you consider yourself to have the requisite "complete training in all audio detectable levels" to refute the "scope jockey"."

You infer incorrectly, and this exposes your biases. I have not said that I possess more knowledge about the level of DA I am not able to hear. Sorry, I don't know where you're reading that. In fact, if you read further on I finish by stating "...the authorities don't know much, either." Sorry you don't read very well - [that was me treating you like you treat me, in case you didn't catch that].

"Moreover, I hear far more people making claims about what they and others can hear than I do "scope jockeys" making claims about what people can't hear."

I think it's nearly evenly split, but who's keeping score? Oh, you are. BTW, just what is the score now, not that you're biased or anything? - [now I'm being a sarcastic bastard like "Fairy Tale"]

"Seems to me the burden is on the people making the claims."

Yeah, but whose claims are you burdening? Not Pease's, it can be inferred of course. Are you saying anyone's claims? Are you making some claims that my claims are false claims and that you need to burden yourself with some proof with those claims? Please clarify.

"Or, are we all just suppose to accept their claims unchallenged simply because of who they are or how articulately and forcefully they can espouse those claims?"

Again, whose claims? Pease's? Pease is pretty damn forceful if you ask me. Mine? Someone else's? I'm not asking you personally to accept anything. Believe Pease if you like. I wouldn't dare force anything on you. I only offer made up stories. We like to keep making them up just for guys like you. It's a club, and we call ourselves "Subjectivists". It's all about deceiving others and snickering about it back at our club meetings. At the last meeting it was JC that had the best stories about his deceptions on last month's worth of postings.

"And I wish someone would explain to me once and for all the scientific validity of claims that are based on experiences where all variables other than actual, detectible sonic differences have been eliminated."

I don't even know what that sentence above means. Let's see, you said to explain the validity of claims based on experiences where all variables of non-audible differences are eliminated, which implies that all variables of audible differences are not necessarily eliminated, or maybe most are or perhaps just one, or two, or whatever... man, I give up.

"This is, after all, a forum devoted to technology and it seems to me that question must be at the heart of any technical discussion of audio. Otherwise, it becomes the giant elephant in the living room everyone ignores."

Let me just try to sum this up. I said you can't prove any DA claim here and even mentioned there may be more than DA at work. You claim the burden of proof is on the person with a claim, and you seem to demand this proof in this forum or it's worthless. Okay, we can deal with that. Delete this thread and most of the rest of them. Otherwise, this goes nowhere. I infer you feel an untested hypothesis is one not even worth mentioning in this forum, and all future hearsay and untested hypotheses are never to be mentioned again. Well, you might want that, but I pretty much doubt it will remain that way for long.

I hope for your sake you have ready the full proof for all your claims you bring here from now on so you don't become a hypocrite.

But, in all seriousness, hahaha!, you should just lighten up. I'm genuinely sorry there's a great deal of unproven "claims" we come up with. I will try to keep down these mentionings for the sake of science. We don't want to make this study impure, I realize.

Ya know, you keep putting words in my mouth and then probably wonder why I get all uppity about it. I'll tell you why. You're a heckler, and not even a good one. Your biased attitude toward me stinks, and you infer nonsense from what I write. Get over it. Do you really think you're providing a great "peer review"? I don't think so.

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