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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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Propeller Head Plaza Technical and scientific discussion of amps, cables and other topics. |
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In Reply to: You are pursuing a personal battle with AJinFla, not with objectivists posted by Pat D on March 9, 2007 at 16:18:37:
Pat,I'm going to attempt one last time of talking with you rationally sans and Pat D-Cake remarks etc. Let's see where that takes us. It's funny how you claim I'm personalizing this topic while you and POLLYinFLA just continue posting back and forth talking about me! The ONLY reason I used POLLYinFLA is because he stated specifically what I said many of your fellow lunatic fringe objectivists believe, i.e. SUBJECTIVISTS THINK ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE USELESS! It was a perfect example so I used it period. If you or any of your other lunatic fringe objectivists said it so clearly I would have used their post as an example as well.
This behavior on your part is IMHO just more typical lunatic fringe objectivist mis-direction. Why won't you simply discuss the subject in question, which is: Why do objectivists lie and claim SUBJECTIVISTS THINK ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE USELESS? Now I'll admit I should have given you more credit for stating "The trouble is that most rationalists accept that as well. jj said the same thing, for example. So there is nothing peculiar to subjectivists here. I honestly believe that statement 100%. I also believe the rational, intelligent objectivists here also know it's true that today's accepted measurements in audio correlate very little to with what we hear & percieve. Thus these objectivists wouldn't make such an idiotic statement of: SUBJECTIVISTS THINK ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE USELESS!
The reason I didn't address your comments how one cannot expect any single measurement to be sufficient to determine how a system sounds. Is twofold a) it really has nothing to do about why the lunatic fringe objectivists lie and state SUBJECTIVISTS THINK ALL MEASUREMENTS ARE USELESS! and b) I don't know of any group of measurements as used today in audio that will tell me what I want to know about a component, so I saw this as a moot point. In order to develope a set of measurements that fairly accurately correlates with what we hear & perceive will take as Tom Danley said extensive and costly research, that at this present time no scientist or audio manufacturer sees as cost effective. When they finally do these test & discover how & why the human ear/brain determines almost instantly what's live and what's recorded music, that will be a set of measurements both subjectivists & objectivists can embrace.
Unlike some of others here who seem to believe (if I understand their POV correctly) that soundstage HxDxW and imaging is the sole responsibity of speaker setup. I absolutely & vehemently must disagree with that POV! I have heard an audio system that was setup well, speakers postioned perfectly that threw an incedible soundstage. Yet after changing the owners Counterpoint SA20/20 with his roomates Crown IC-150 the soundstage collapsed and went from having an almost 3-D presentation to a soundstage that was paper thin! I was curious as to which specs could tell me why the Counterpoint threw such a great soundstage and the Crown such a horrible one? It's not simply a matter of proper speaker placement as some would suggest.
Finally Pat there's a difference bewteen just feeling I'm berated & disparged and actually being berated & disparged!
Main Entry: be·rate
Pronunciation: bi-'rAt, bE-
Function: transitive verb
: to scold or condemn vehemently and at length
synonym see SCOLDMore than one objectivist here has berated me simply for prefering the Mastersound Reference 845 when I stated my OPINION that it produces the most realistic replication of live music I've ever heard from any amplifier. I've NEVER said it is THE BEST amplifier only the best I've ever heard.
Main Entry: dis·par·age
Pronunciation: \di-ˈsper-ij, -ˈspa-rij\
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -aged; -ag·ing
Etymology: Middle English, to degrade by marriage below one's class, disparage, from Anglo-French desparager to marry below one's class, from des- dis- + parage equality, lineage, from per peer
Date: 14th century
1 : to lower in rank or reputation : degrade
2 : to depreciate by indirect means (as invidious comparison) : speak slightingly aboutAdditionally more than one objectivist has disparaged my choice of prefering the Mastersound Reference 845 as well. Now if you honestly feel sorry others have berated and disparaged me for my opinions & beliefs I sincerely appreciate your concern.
Thetubeguy1954
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Follow Ups
- Believe What You Want To Pat - thetubeguy1954 13:15:13 03/12/07 (0)
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