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Re: For The Record....

> So short of you going back and getting a high-level science education

He only has to go back to his school books from his early teens. Everyone is taught the scientific method and the basis of science.

> and
> providing audibility data (you know - the kind that someone can READ rather
> than experience), there's nothing more you can do.

On a forum such as this, writing it down would be useful. Posting audio files would be an alternative but without the kit for making in head recordings it would be difficult to make much of a case.

> You've provided everything else and have been ignored.

He has provided nothing except posting extraordinary claims.

> You can't force these people to learn the truth when they're so dead set
> against it.

Indeed. Unsubstantiated extraordinary claims will be dismissed by all normal rational people. The only ones likely to be attracted are those with a need to believe.

> This thread has done almost as much for the Subjectivist POV as openminded
> listening has, IMHO.

Care to expand?

Surely the point of view of a reasonable subjectivist rests on claiming that all that is important is the subjective experience. I listen to this system and I experience this. I listen to that system and I experinece that. This is a perfectly reasonable viewpoint which few would argue against. I certainly would not.

The problem comes when a subjectivist projects what they experience onto various hardware components and make incorrect claims that lie in the scientific domain. Then you get people pointing out that the subjectivist is talking drivel. Unfortunately, the subjectivists that do this always lack any understanding of the basics of science and so one cannot use scientific reasoning to explain why they are wrong. It would require the subjectivist to trust scientifically established information without understanding why it is valid. A few decades ago this trust was almost always forthcoming but today when presented with an alternative that is more attractive a growing proportion of people will happily reject what is scientifically valid in favour of what is attractive.

> Just enjoy your system and when someone claims you're delusional, it's ok to
> point them to this thread and laugh your ass off at them. If they laugh
> back, well, I guess that's what makes the world go 'round - or at least this
> debate!

Indeed.

> It's been two-sided for decades and I suppose it shall always be.

Again it depends on your point of view. Most disagreements exist because the two sides possess different sets of information.

In your case you lack information about science and how a scientist reasons but a scientists probably does not lack the information you use to come to your judgements. Which one is likely to be right concerning information in the scientific domain?

> Time to let it go on for the next generation to stew over.

Indeed the consequences for the next generation are interesting given that truthiness is most certainly on the increase and not just in unimportant areas like expensive hi-fi.

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