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Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes. |
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Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes. |
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In Reply to: Not an attack. posted by D Harvey on September 25, 2006 at 19:45:57:
Yeah, calling someone ignorant is a pat on the back, huh? Directing all this stuff about certain conclusions are 'blatantly obvious' made a lot more sense shoveling my way rather than Mike's, since my remark wasn't corroborated by anyone on five continents...except it was, although the guy who knows what he speaks of since he's been playing for 45 years was somehow unaware of it. Likewise, it's not possible I've ever been in the company of accomplished players...who, curiously enough, shared my view that Rollins had pluses Trane didn't have (and, of course, vice versa), at least at a certain point. Who, uh, weren't laughing at anyone, nor was anyone laughing at them, since it's just not that difficult to make a case that there were better players. What is difficult is to make that case seem important. Look, I know he deleted that post, but it wasn't until he saw I wasn't bluffing about that book.Yes, that's how I define virtuoso. Blame the instructors who defined it for me. Blame the dictionary, too, since it neither proves nor disproves either of our personal takes on it (you'll see how prominently the word SAVANT shows up if you go take a look).
I'm not sure I would use the term 'practice' to describe some of what Coltrane did in the later years of his life while playing in private. Sounds to me, and looks, by some footage I've seen, as though he were trying to find a way to climb in the thing, to become one with it. An odd behavior, to say the least. But the way I was raised to view the term 'virtuoso' suggests that one of those probably doesn't approach their instrument in the way Coltrane did. I get what you're saying; do you get my point?
I say virtuosos are, or at least can be thought of, as being born rather than formed, yes. However, I say the ability to produce great work is usually the opposite, especially since it's not as reliant on playing ability. I reiterate that people with lesser skills than virtuosos, even if they're only slightly lesser, have to work harder to produce more interesting results. They're the ones that are forced to think outside the box more than the person for whom note-for-note, perfect performances of this or that piece are regularly possible. Of course, what's lost sight of in this discussion is improvisation. But that's not surprising when a more productive discussion would likely take place if more people took more substantive exception with Mike's posts. Reading Rick's post labelling me as ignorant, when I correctly pointed out that there were some, perhaps many, who felt this way, rather than being directed at Mike, who actually believes that stuff, and to an extreme, is...uh...I think bullshit is the word that best describes it. I'll accept that it wasn't an attack, but I'd ask that you accept that it was something closer to it than you seem willing to acknowledge here--especially given that I wasn't the one who rattled off a list of supposedly better players on the basis of 'Supreme Talent, My Ass.'
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Follow Ups
- Re: Not an attack. - J 23:18:12 09/25/06 (2)
- Re: Not an attack. - D Harvey 05:22:04 09/26/06 (1)
- Re: Not an attack. - J 13:27:56 09/26/06 (0)
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