In Reply to: Michi - - your thoughts on this . . . posted by Martin419 on September 6, 2005 at 05:49:48:
... Taking the 44.1/16 to analog and then back into Nuendo may have added a sort of 'unintentional dither' to the original 16 bit PCM. That's the only thing I can really put my finger on as having merit when he talks about his hybrid approach. Bouncing to tape would, in a crude way, add dither. Of course there are other "qualities" that could have been added in the process that may have just been good to his ear: soft saturation, tape compression - but that just depends on how he bounced it.As for "filling in the jaggies" -- In a way, you could be anti-aliasing via tape; but seeing that most 24-track tape (assuming that's what he's using) has response above 50khz, at least in the time domain you're talking about more resolution that 44.1 anyways. So at best you'd have to take into account slew rates of opamps, and at worst you'd end up simply offsetting your "jaggies" temporally, and getting some phase shifting and comb artifacts. (debatable as to whether this would be audible though.)
I think it'd be more "sensible" to take the approach you spoke of, adding dither intentionally in the final mastering phase while working on it at 176.4. Once you used 'tape for dither' I wouldn't suggest adding actual noise shaping in the final product; and the noise shaping methods we have today are much, much better than simple dancing bits caused by tape hiss.
I don't know why he landed on 96khz in the final mix. Maybe his intention was to shake the whole thing up a lot. Really, through that whole chain: bouncing to analog and resampling to 96khz, what your net effect would be, you'd end up with a more blurred high-end. So some dither was added, great, and maybe there's a net effect of a slight lowpass to warm up the sound some. It's probably his way of getting the sound he's looking for, and in a way, I can kind of see it working ... but there are more "informed" ways to get similar results IMHO.
Engineers have their secret tricks and methodologies, and I've seen a lot of them (including one guy who I did some work for who went A-D-D-A about twelve times at 44.1/16 - that made me cringe) : but these guys swear by them.
I'd "call out" a lot more of their methods if I didn't think I'd get shouted down by the good old "Well how come they're a fancy engineer and you aren't?" argument. Indeed maybe that question answers itself.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Follow Ups
- Re: Michi - - your thoughts on this . . . - Michi 08:37:50 09/06/05 (24)
- Re: Michi - - your thoughts on this . . . - racerguy 17:04:30 09/06/05 (17)
- Racer, I wasn't saying he did. I was simply giving input as to.. - Michi 09:02:38 09/07/05 (1)
- I know - racerguy 09:24:10 09/07/05 (0)
- Re: Michi - - your thoughts on this . . . - Martin419 02:45:41 09/07/05 (1)
- You continue to show you have no idea what you're talking about (nt) - racerguy 05:57:35 09/07/05 (0)
- "So, again, speculation, because I haven't talked to Ainlay and I haven't seen any documentation" . . . - Martin419 02:16:56 09/07/05 (1)
- As I have said before. . . - racerguy 06:27:41 09/07/05 (0)
- So, there *was* an analog safety backup made? - Christine Tham 17:46:14 09/06/05 (10)
- Re: So, there *was* an analog safety backup made? - racerguy 18:06:56 09/06/05 (9)
- Re: So, there *was* an analog safety backup made? - Christine Tham 18:24:18 09/06/05 (8)
- Re: So, there *was* an analog safety backup made? - racerguy 07:43:14 09/07/05 (7)
- Oh no. They did NOT use "analog backup" for BIA's 5.1 mix . . . - Martin419 07:59:50 09/07/05 (6)
- It's nice to see - racerguy 08:09:50 09/07/05 (5)
- Re: It's nice to see - Martin419 08:32:09 09/07/05 (4)
- Re: It's nice to see - racerguy 09:19:57 09/07/05 (3)
- Re: It's nice to see - Martin419 09:53:23 09/07/05 (2)
- Not done thrashing about, I see - racerguy 10:15:59 09/07/05 (1)
- Weak. n.t. - Martin419 10:18:31 09/07/05 (0)
- Resampling artefacts - Christine Tham 14:01:01 09/06/05 (4)
- sorry - one correction - Christine Tham 14:03:41 09/06/05 (3)
- Wow well, something to try tonight. - Michi 15:50:07 09/06/05 (2)
- Very interested to to see your results - Christine Tham 16:28:14 09/06/05 (1)
- Thanks for the REAL info - head_unit 22:47:34 09/13/05 (0)
- Re: Michi - - your thoughts on this . . . - Martin419 10:48:16 09/06/05 (0)