In Reply to: Tube Distortion and Bias ... a perspective posted by Naz on July 7, 2006 at 08:45:29:
Naz, interesting post.Let me just add another dimension to the discussion. I have found that the complexity of the music being auditioned makes a big difference in listening preferences, at least for me. When listening to SETs, I am most impressed with music that is simple; for example a female vocal with acoustic guitar, or a frugal arrangement of jazz with sax, bass and drums with a lot of “black spaceâ€. With just the right music, SETs can put you “there†in a way that most other amp types can’t. But with many SET amps, when the going gets rough, the sound gets confused. Sometimes we rightly blame this on overload, given the small output power from most SETs. But I’m trying to separate this confusion phenomenon from gross overload. Listen to a very broadband complex piece with a large number of instruments through several kinds of amps, while keeping volume levels reasonably low to keep overt clipping out of the picture. Now do the same thing with a simple piece of music. With the more complex selections, I tend to prefer good PP amps, even some with NFB. I’m very sensitive to distortion in complex music. To my ears, the cacophonous confusion with complex music is very irritating and can be a show-stopper. Many amps with NFB will add a different kind of grit, harshness and an edge to complex music, but then again some don’t. A well-designed PP triode amp with low or no NFB can usually do complex (as well as simple) best, IMO. Speakers and cartridges also show their relative worth with complex music (I think ESLs win hands-down with complex music). Have you noticed how some audiophiles (and manufacturers at trade shows) will select demo discs, perhaps unwittingly, based on how well their equipment performs on complex versus simple? I’ll bet some folks’ musical collections are even influenced or limited by their choice of equipment.
I suspect, in amps at least, that the confusion with complex music is due more to the inevitable production of intermodulation products rather than just the added lower-order harmonics. Anything with a bent transfer function, especially seen in SETs, will make lots of IMD too. IMD is potentially less noticeable when the instantaneous spectrum contains relatively few frequencies; hence the better performance with simple music. I’m NOT bashing SETs, just pointing out possible strengths and weaknesses, and asking if others have observed the same.
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Follow Ups
- Another dimension: Complex music versus simple - BBeck 09:53:18 07/07/06 (28)
- Re: Complex music v. ? on ? and ? - Dave-A 21:29:34 07/07/06 (17)
- Re: Complex music v. ? on ? and ? - BBeck 10:04:30 07/08/06 (16)
- Re: Complex music - Dave-A 08:05:30 07/09/06 (5)
- Re: Complex music - BBeck 11:26:26 07/09/06 (4)
- Re: ESL for SET? - Dave-A 13:01:22 07/09/06 (3)
- Re: ESL for SET? - BBeck 13:04:51 07/09/06 (2)
- Re: ESL for SET? - Naz 22:44:44 07/09/06 (1)
- Re: ESL for SET? - Dave-A 06:55:32 07/10/06 (0)
- Re: Complex music v. ? on ? and ? - Naz 17:09:46 07/08/06 (9)
- Re: Complex music v. ? on ? and ? - BBeck 18:14:11 07/08/06 (8)
- Re: Complex music v. ? on ? and ? - Naz 05:14:40 07/09/06 (2)
- Re: Complex music v. ? on ? and ? - BBeck 11:38:02 07/09/06 (1)
- Re: Complex music v. ? on ? and ? - Naz 16:40:26 07/09/06 (0)
- Might trying parafeed - Russ57 18:42:26 07/08/06 (4)
- Re: Might trying parafeed - BBeck 11:12:33 07/09/06 (0)
- Similar results to normal SET ... - Naz 05:28:19 07/09/06 (2)
- Yes.... - Russ57 05:56:02 07/09/06 (1)
- Re: Yes.... - Naz 16:49:36 07/09/06 (0)
- Excellent post! I agree with your general observations... - JJ Triode 11:03:57 07/07/06 (3)
- 'Except I never heard a zero NFB PPT amp yet' - Jimmy 16:10:15 07/07/06 (2)
- Re: 'Except I never heard a zero NFB PPT amp yet' - Naz 17:02:06 07/07/06 (1)
- Negative feedback - Jimmy 20:46:32 07/07/06 (0)
- But why haven't ENGINEERS come up with a revealing TEST - grhughes 10:40:42 07/07/06 (4)
- Re: But why haven't ENGINEERS come up with a revealing TEST - BBeck 11:52:40 07/07/06 (3)
- Re: But why haven't ENGINEERS come up with a revealing TEST - pickle 08:39:00 07/08/06 (1)
- Re: But why haven't ENGINEERS come up with a revealing TEST - BBeck 09:09:27 07/08/06 (0)
- Thanks! Cheever a GOOD READ! nt - grhughes 13:03:40 07/07/06 (0)
- This is exactly what I observed with the triode mod.... - radiance 10:40:33 07/07/06 (0)