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I have a Technics SL-1500 C turntable which has a built-in phono stage but I'd like to upgrade to an external phono stage. I've never used one before and I'm looking forward to the improvement in detail.
The stylus I'm using is the Ortofon pro S 30 moving magnet and am happy with it
My budget is about $1000 but there's good reviews for some considerably less expensive such as a couple of the Schitt phono stages and iFi Zen.
Which phono stages should I consider?
Thanks.
Follow Ups:
Before you buy anything, read this:
https://wallofsound.ca/audioreviews/the-300-dragon-slayer-lounge-audios-lcr-mk-iii-phono-stage/
Edits: 10/08/24
Later Gator,
Dave
I have experimented with many phono pre-amps. This is easily the sweetest-sounding and by far the best value. I have the MP8B.
Lots of growing room.
LISTEN TO THIS -- I HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH YOUR SETUP:
I used to use a Concorde with an Ortofon OM30 stylus, so I know what that sounds like. I also used it on a Technics turntable (1200G); so I know what that sounds like.
You are stating you are looking for a phono stage; but the part that is unstated is TO MAKE YOUR CURRENT SETUP SOUND BETTER.
My suggestion is this:
1. Darlington Labs MM6B phono stage. You can get on Ebay or his site.
2. Blue Jeans Cable LC-1 (get two pairs of the and use the 'default' ground wire from Technics). One pair from tonearm to MM6B; one pair from MM6B to the input on preamp.
NOW; HERE'S THE MAGIC:
Set the Darlington Labs phono stage to 0pf or 50pf ONLY; with the loading at 38k Ohms.
Set the cartridge VTF for 1.500 grams EXACTLY !! Get a "digital turntable stylus force gauge" for around $20 USD shipped from Amazon to verify the correct setting.
Anti-skate is a variable thing.....to get in the ballpark; set the anti-skate so the stylus barely is not moving when it's 2mm [almost at, but not] the runout loop at the end of the record side -- the groove at the end of a side of 12-inch record that traps the needle -- CLOSE to the Peter Ledermann/Frank Schroeder method.
VTA should be so the arm, when in the center of a 120 gram record (think 80's retail pressings) -- the head shell is eye EXACTLY parallel to the PEREFECTLY FLAT record on the platter.
Also, consider getting the KAB Audio (KabUsa.com) damping system for the new Technics turntables (there are two styles, you need the revised new style -- TD 1000).
Additionally, get a KAB record stabilizer (RC 1200). They are worth it.
If you get everything here: $400 + $120 + $150 + $80 = $750 AND THE SOUND WILL BE UPGRADED TREMENDOUSLY !!
Your Welcome,
Marty N.
Thank you, Marty! I will do some research
Best,
Bob
You are most welcome ! Someone gave me, over these years, all this information that I verified -- so, the "circle of life" (RIP James Earl Jones) has to keep the information alive by sharing.
Martin N.
I miss JEJ. He was a great actor.
indeed !!
i have not heard one but Parks had the Puffin which was widely praised. now the Waxwing is available and is quite flexible.
...regards...tr
Thanks. I'll check the reviews.
This is a should give you all you need in Phono preamp.
This Sutherland should fit the bill!
They have several models that are highly regarded. Their top-of-the-line MP8B is just under $1000.
M
...buying anything used. You will most likely regret it
? where did this come from? just check feedback.. 95% used is ok. and return is usually an option if unit does not match description.
actually, i have had more than 5 costly new units be defective. and had difficulty getting if fixed. so i stay away from new unless its bought directly from a VERY reputable store (do they exist anymore?) .
if you can deal with tubes, don sachs and hagerman are top of the $1000 heap.
going down to at the $1000 price point (used) .... the brit phono units are hard to beat. also consider sutherland and pass diy units (like pearl2, dynavect p75. going a bit lower ,
darlington labs is very good --- considerably above Schitt in sound quality and performance.
rgds
m
Including many tube components...a heavy SE 845 amp, and ARC SP10-MKII among many others. I have also purchased used phono cartridges without any problems.
A used purchaser should know what they are buying and why.
Thank you. I wasn't planning on buying used.👍
Stort wrote, "...buying anything used. You will most likely regret it"
I respectfully beg to differ. I have bought many used components including my present Pass Labs XP 17 phonostage, and results have been uniformly good.
I dream of an America where a chicken can cross the road without having it's motives questioned.
75% of my 45 year audio journey was done via used gear. I haven't been burned yet.
All it takes it a bit of common sense and research.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
it's only safe when you know the person and condition. The older the piece, the greater the risk of parts needing replacement, especially capacitors. Relax, it's a philosophy I've used for many years.
So choose wisely, and advice like that is hard to give without knowing all the details and facts on a used piece
Buying a new one w/warranty is much safer and simpler - got it? It will save the buyer time etc. The advice on the Sota is a good example for plug and play right away
I bought a Threshold FET ten/pc phono preamp from Oakroot. It was a great deal and sounds great!
But that was over 20 years ago and it was much older when I bought it. I hadn't used it for a while and when I did, it was definitely broken. I pulled it out and started to open it up and I heard a lot of rattling. Most of the old small caps had disintegrated and little pieces were all over inside.
Luckily, I found a old Threshold tech and it's still great and should last long enough for my lifetime.
Old classics will require maintenance.
-Rod
"it's only safe when you know the person and condition. The older the piece, the greater the risk of parts needing replacement, especially capacitors."
It's simply foolish for anyone who isn't wealthy to own tube gear without knowing how to maintain it at the component level. This is niche technology that requires knowledgeable ownership, much like owning a classic antique car. You either learn how to maintain it yourself or pay through the nose for services of a specialist. The $1000 budget mentioned earlier tells us that, regardless of the age of the piece, new or used, the OP should either learn to work with it or stay with SS gear. I also believe there's little or no benefit to this technology if it will be used to drive a SS amplifier.
I thought it was rather obvious he didn't have much experience
"I have a Technics SL-1500 C turntable which has a built-in phono stage"
so learning tube electronics would not put him in the driver seat quickly. That's why I and others suggested plug and play alternative to a better rig than he posted.
(To the OP bob24, you can come back here anytime for other opinions and learned advice, and if you would like learning tube electronics and how to replace parts seek Triode K and others on the Tube DIY Asylum but be prepared for a long ride)
I would venture to say that thousands of members here and the various other forums (DIY Audio, Audio Karma, etc) have learned how to maintain their own tube gear, and for the most it wasn't a "long ride." There's a huge following for nearly every vintage model, and the amount of online expertise and instruction available is truly staggering now. I'll just add that Chinese garbage is often the only alternative in these lower budget ranges, and that sometimes requires more maintenance than a used legacy piece and often doesn't perform correctly even when new. I might not have suggested this approach if the OP was searching for something more complex, but a used, good quality phono preamp is a piece of cake to maintain and even to upgrade. I've been in audio and electronics generally since the late '60s, so my advice is based on many years of watching professionals and amateurs alike work with tubes. Given all the resources available on the Internet and at the various specialist suppliers, just about anyone can deal with this technology.
gosh, you are insistent but so am I.
I agree on your points for those experienced at this, but buying a PAS 3 'used' means quite a task for a novice or newbie bob24 or anybody else. I have a PAS3 and it works and I use it, so I know it well.
Just the circuit traces will give anyone who has considerable soldering experience a very hard time. Anyone who has never used a soldering iron will pull his hair out. Applying heat to those joints will loosen the traces that adhere to the board and most likely destroy them.
And then repairs to those will be necessary, a considerable task for ANYONE with no or little experience let alone a person with experience. Why a person should pursue your way when a new phono at 300+ bucks and ready to play should approach your suggestion that 'appears to have no experience'.
I still fail to see the big why (but not including the sound alone of the RIAA section of the Hafler design)
I'll let my suggestion and others stand, and we will have to see what bob24 says he does if he responds
Hi Story,
Thank you for your message. I would love to get more involved in the hobby but due to random fatigue from leukemia treatment,I need a phono pre which requires little to no tweaking as I don't always have the energy to focus. Just simple, mundane chores around the house can really wipe me out!
Again, I appreciate your contribution and all of the other members kind help.
Bob
the Vinyl Asylum has great people here to share all kinds of talk.
And a special salute to your courage. be well!
Thanks!
Sorry to hear about your health issues, and I completely understand. Good luck in your search!
Thank you 🙏
Most people involved in audio are very honest.
it's been excellent, I'd give it an A.
I have over a thousand transactions buying and selling on Ebay and that has proven otherwise.
There's always an otherwise B, caveat emptor
I only use tubes, simply because it's so much more likely a tube-based product will be "right" when it comes to the sonic signature. Standalone tube preamps can be pricey, but your budget would buy a used Dynaco PAS-2 or PAS-3. These are full-feature preamps, but you could use isolate the phono by using the Phono inputs and Record outputs.
I love my Sota pyxi for 300 bucks. Clear, dynamic and punchy. Very accurate riaa compensation. Will accept lomc with 65 db gain. I never thought I would be satisfied with anything other than a tube phono pre but I am totally satisfied with this little jewel. Run it into a Vacuum Tube Audio line stage. I don't feel the need to go anywhere else. And for $300?
LowIQ
I have a SOTA Pyxi and use it with various moving coil cartridges. This unit started as a DIY project on Audiokarma and I had one of those unitspe before buying a Pyxi. It replaced a highly regarded $3000 tube based phono stage. I'd put that unit back in from time to time and it just wasn't as good, so I sold it. I'm perfectly happy with it, even with cartridges costing 6-8 times the price of the Pyxi. If you can spring for a moving coil to go with it you'll get it's full benefit.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Spelled suggestions wrong but I think everyone knows what I meant. Lol
no problem with me, I originally started posting on the internet as a way to improve my life long problems with spelling.
Now that I have opened my big mouth, I must admit I am not much help for phono amp advice, I find the subject as complicated as the designs that handle micro signals.
It helps the signal chain that you are running a moving magnet, it greatly simplifies the amount of amplification , making me confident any choice made , will be a happy one. My only advice , because I think signal quality will be covered, is to select as quiet an amplifier as you can find .
I can offer no advice in this area, besides the old advice to craft your buying triggers carefully, but human hearing will adjust to the accuracy and tonality of almost any amplification, but it will never tune out noise generated in the amplification.
I have been kicking around upgrading my amplification for a long time, it can be a complex buying decision. In my case, I have a digital JVC integrated amp, where the phone section is dead quiet even turned all the way up, without signal, of course. I know most phono amplification will have some noise , and I fear such an outcome, trading noise for a promise of better fidelity.
Thanks, Beach cruiser. I'm generally a good speller but sometimes I forget to proofread my posts
lol.
Appreciate your answer and honesty.
I'm in no rush to get a phono stage.
I'll take some time and do research and also welcome suggestions from the other members.
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