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In Reply to: RE: Sansui AU-517 caps posted by JURB on October 26, 2020 at 07:37:50
it's manufactured that way FOR shipping survival
"Leo 2.0!!"
Follow Ups:
It is manufactured that way because the board goes down the line at component insertion stage it it stops and goes. They want the component with more mass to stay put.
This is mass production not some guys dipping the board in etchant after hand drilling and hand stuffing them.
Even the smaller components, why are the leads formed the way they are / To keep them in the holes as the board stops at a station that holds a certain type of component and then moves quite quickly to the next.
The glue, whatever traits you may think it has now, when it was nice and new it was born tacky. They needed this fast so there is no time to it to set let alone dry.
Some ICs can be a problem child if not dealt with properly, you have probably seen an STK3042 in something. If none of the pins are bent the insertion machine but a brace, which could stick between the fins on a heat sink or something. It is then removed after wave soldering.
You might see large through hole ICs like with 40 or 64 pins with no pins bent, they didn't need them because unlike the old 14 or 16 pins, the pins on those "BDCs" (just imagine what that stands for) are splayed out. The insertion machine squeezes them a bit in its holder and once in, releasing that pressure which is good enough to hold the IC in place, especially because of its low profile. And earthquake is more likely to topple a tall building than a short one, this is the same theory at work on a different scale.
When those ICs first came out, called LSI (not even VSLI yet)I made more money because I was one of the few who could change them without collateral damage to the board. And some of them were very cheap - meaning very thin copper. Actually PC boards are not meant to be soldered with an iron. Anyway, including cleaning the board I was some with one in maybe five minutes. Others took longer to do it fucking up the board. so after that 15 minutes they have to spend an hour to fix the PC board. That's why I literally made twice as much as those incompetent oafs. The nice part was the money they had been losing because of the wasted time went into my pocket.
Then, I quit a job. Hey they don't cooperate with me I don't need them. I could always get a job. One time partying between jobs (it was like a vacation) a friend says that they are hiring at Instrumatics, a company that MAKES circuit boards. I am/was kickass on an interview, if they have two it is because it is technical, you go to the next guy. Usually I got "When can you start ?".
That wasn't bad, the place smelled like a chemical dump sometimes, depends on what they were doing at the time.
They weren't slave drivers. One of my tasks was silk screening, now when you do that you do a run and fill the racks and it goes in the oven. If there isn't another job pending, which was about half the time I could roam around. And roam did I, believe me. I know when to take it out of the oven. Actually a big part of there not being another job right now was that after the solder mask then the silk screen is done. In other words the green shit goes on first. Then comes the little R457 and C321 n all that shit like lines and circles. Of course that requires a different screen, but once you make the frame, do the exposure to the transparency ad wash it, you don't just throw it out and forget about it, moving on to the next one. Like in a pattern shop you save it, like a pattern shop saves those mold cores. Just number them right, why ? Because if the customer does well with it you get more orders. So you mark it with the control number and it goes in a drawer somewhere, and there is supposed to be a list of what is in there.
I do concur that the glue, once dry is beneficial. It holds the component to the board independent of the leads holding to the solder on the PC board. Until it becomes conductive...
I worked on high end video, they used glue. Then that became conductive. That did really well at frigging things up. However it happened very rarely to audio. It was mainly video and we are talking rear projection three tube TVs that were among the best in the world. It was most common in Mitsubishis and they were in the top three or four in performance, and even initial reliability. I won't claim they did it on purpose, but they made some money off it.
Those units went for like $3, 4, 5 grand. Once in a while I had to do something on site so had to go to the customers house. While there quite a bit of the times I saw some really good stereo equipment. Back then surround was not yet in full swing so they had the audio piped through some solid gold systems n shit. Just stereo. But the sound of it impelled me to join my systems. And they had whole rooms dedicated to it, but they would have the TV, or maybe a ceiling projector, many of which did not even have an audio circuit.
with nonsense.
I worked in many labs as a Certified Laboratory Technician and in one lab we had a Vibration Table, the biggest one made. It was used to replicate shipping conditions and the usual testing was to qualify things for 'G' forces at 3.5 to 4 over various periods of time. If the testing failed it was back to the calcs.
We also did what they call Drop Testing at various heights to find the consistent break points in packages for clients. It is a known fact that the caps need extra support because of not only the weight of each involved but the repeated punishment from the shippers. The greater weight of larger caps requires the securing of chassis clamps to hold them. I know of what I speak.
You are a daft showman and are trying to save face, go to bed.
"Leo 2.0!!"
You have not refuted anything.
And I am not refuting what you said, of course when companies go into mass production they want that data.
Still, without that goop, which is what it is in the beginning, nothing would be produced. The heavier components would be laying all over the floor.
in the specific case of the less bulky EC's, they would not be laying on the floor. They would be tilted down with leads ripped out of the cap and sometimes even completely with caps bouncing around within.
I've seen both possibilities when not secured properly or the glue used in older equipment has dried up and become useless for the intended purpose. New equipment has a better chance of survival but the shippers have become even more brutal in handling of the packages today and that's why many people now fear to ship any equipment and go thru possible insurance claims.
In case anyone else is reading this for edification, I used to own a business and received packages every day. I also shipped out of the business and spoke many times to the drivers about the shipping conditions of any package from any shipper - they said, and I quote, "we beat every package especially the heavy ones"
"Leo 2.0!!"
"in the specific case of the less bulky EC's, they would not be laying on the floor"
That was an exaggeration. I do that from time to time.
"the shippers have become even more brutal in handling of the packages today and that's why many people now fear to ship any equipment and go thru possible insurance claims."
I found UPS to be fairly easy to deal with. I sent a projection CRT up to Michigan. I built the container, not the box itself but a wood frame inside for support and plenty of padding. Still they managed to break it.
Being bot members of a professional trade site I only charged him fifty bucks but the default is a hundred for insurance. I proved what it was worth and they gave me the hundred. So I had his fifty, and the hundred and split is with him, so he got more money back than he paid. However the loss put the kabash on a three hundred buck job.
I fixed a vertical TT for a guy a state away, the shippig was three hundred round trip AND THEY BROKE IT. And it was in a way a claim would be near impossible, so I just fixed the damages and met him at the state line.
Being still in the business, I still won't encourage people to ship me anything except amps. Anything mechanical don't bother, there has to be some one local enough. Well unless they live in Bulltit, Iowa.
Still the shipping isn't worth the risk.
In no way do I dispute what you say about shipping. And even saving the original box etc. is not really all that great, the Styrofoam doesn't really give. My preferred method is carpet padding. That will actually reduce the G force by handling significantly.
This all brings back an old luggage ad on TV. It showed a gorilla throwing a suitcase around, on the floor, walls whatever. One of those things that seem pretty accurate now.
I did say something about getting audio couriers dedicated to shipping audio units. I am pretty good at figuring things out but this one I come up short.
One possibility might be those car transport companies, the kind that when someone wants their car taken to their new house in a different state they get someone who wanted to go there anyway and after verifying the license and all that, getting the insurance right they drive the car there.
Shipping really is the biggest PITA in this.
as a baggage boy( ramp agent nowadays), and I delivered a cart of mail to the airport post office. One of the mail pieces was obviously a large painting. The postal boy(agent) grabbed the painting package and threw it about 15 feet onto the asphalt. The package bounced back and forth a couple times before settling down, and I have wrapped all my packages appropriately since then. Packages have to survive being thrown or dropped.
That's when people are being polite. Far too often, fragile is interpreted as please, "Gorilla Stomp" me. :> ((
Eli D.
That is the infamous sansui glue. It was used to hold larger components in place as the PCB went through wave solder. had nothing to do with shipping.
if and when you recap the amp, you will want to remove that glue. it takes some time and you must be careful, since being too aggressive will damage the silk screen on the board.
if the glue is not removed, it becomes conductive over time. Its also corrosive so will chew through any component leads it has come in contact with.
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