Tweakers' Asylum

Posted by KAIBER (A) on January 23, 2024 at 06:45:22

In Reply to: RE: Black Gate and Kaisei, a look back and future possibilities posted by KAIBER on January 23, 2024 at 06:39:22

(Part 2: What can/may be done)
It's all about spread FINE graphite particles EVENLY in separator sheet at RIGHT SATURATION, so "have you tried pencil?" obviously won't do.

The key question might be: how is paper made? Was BG's graphite IMPREGNATED paper, in whatever means, literally stock paper got IMPREGNATED afterward?
I know, paper/tissue in electrolyte caps is not something you can buy in store, and WASHI paper while thin enough, is obviously way too "hole-y" that it would guarantee internal shortout.
So back to basic question, how is paper made? Break fibers and boil in water until it disperse into paper pulp, preferably boil with clean water in most cases, sometimes with designated IMPURITY depending on cases, such as dyes or glitters for art craft papers, or maybe GRAPHITE PARTICLES.

~If this "impregnation-while-cooking-paper-pulp" method is indeed not tried, then it's clear that can only be performed in those few farway paper factories that does capacitor tissue. But this is the most likely way to ensure proper dispersion and saturation of graphite particle I can think of, as graphite concentration in water can be controlled beforehand, particles flow along boiling water with broken fibers can make certain it disperse properly once paper is done.

Forementioned nano-carbon family materials, natively in nano size, hardly exist when Black Gate was around, should be easier to disperse than conventional graphite. There's a contact cleaner/enhancer from Acoustic Revive of Japan, ECI-50. Composed of nano-diamond in specialized oil, takes 12 hours to break-in, as nano-particles need such time to "align"...sounds deja vu? Somewhere in certain Jelmax Technical Report?
And looks like its concentration is not too high as to cause short:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeSgPeOijoE

Then I ran into Mundorf's article about their oiled film capacitor, not drenching in oil then put in a can, but spreading a thin layer of oil over sheet before rolling. I came to think about how it would turn out had ECI-50 been in place of that oil. Yeah, oil is not likely something to mess into electrolyte. But nano-diamond particles within may worth a try.

Maybe the true way to hold Black Gate's legacy is not to re-create Black Gate itself, but to succeed what Black Gate did. I know it sounds overly exotic and abstract, but hear me:
~Electrolyte capacitors that sound good was not thought possible before Black Gate, now even most of standard electrolytes can sound acceptable in casual way.
~Electrolyte capacitors that are bi-polar was not thought possible before Black Gate, now bi-polar electrolytes are normal spec.
So, what's else there can be done from here?
~Audio-class solid capacitor? Maybe Os-con partly fill the shoe, but there's really big room for improvement.
~Bi-polar solid polymer capacitor maybe? They are not physically that far from either electrolytes and film, there got to be some way.
A big irony here was that Jelmax mocked and trashed every dry-type capacitor except film and mica, despite they are the one who made break-through that turned long-trashed electrolytes into wonder.
Rubycon has developed PMLCAP, already been there years ago, but re-discovered in AUDIO realm only in recent years. I know it's not same thing as solid capacitor things, but it showed way to new possibility: PMLCAP is the similar breakthrough to Jelmax-trashed MLCC-family that Black Gate was to electrolytes!

~Here we get to the possible new key: conductive polymer. We know that graphite and paper don't mix well without Jelmax's lost secret sauce...but what about conductive polymer that's been in solid capacitors forever?? As I mentioned earlier, as a techno-phile, revival of graphite separator things is still major concern. Graphite and polymer simply sounds highly "compatible"! If graphite won't do, as least one of those nano-carbon family very likely will!

~And from here it leads to: HYBRID polymer capacitor (not to be confused with "hybrid type" supercapacitor). Here conductive polymer work concordantly with liquid electrolyte, its mild-conductivity combined with electrolyte liquid may resulted physical nature similar to Black Gate:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/lifespan-of-black-gate-caps.341291/#post-5881087
I don't find anything that suggest Panasonic ZA got any diffrent "impregnation" than other brand's hybrids, but the point here is that there's great potential with hybrid capacitor. Slightly higher ESR than solid though, yet capable of dealing with greater ripple current as it's mostly used on electrical cars, and almost all are 125c-classed.
And some pic search shows that some capacitors inside WEISS' DAC look quite like some of Panasonic's hybrid......hmmmm.

~Now already in your hands is Black Gate's "premium" electrolyte liquid in KAISEI. Hybrid is already awesome by its physical nature, just imagine how far it can go, with electrolyte from BG/KAISEI? Combined with "standard" conductive polymer, or graphite, or nano-carbon family impregnated polymer, imagine all those combination, and all the possibilities that come with it!

~I'm aware that hybrid caps are quite limited in capacitance and voltage range (better than solid though), but within which they may really have potential to be worthy heir to Black Gates. Yes I did mention it may turn out to be "anything Black Gate but sound", if it indeed turns out to be that case, it can still be marketed as Rubycon's "technological breakthrough in collaboration" product so it would not be wasted. Or if it sounds great just not in Black Gate flavor, then it can be marketed as some sorta "alternative Neo Black Gate line."

And as Hybrid caps are pratically solid caps "back to root" with electrolyte added back, I'm looking forward to eventually hear announcement of breakthrough with "bi-polar hybrid capacitor" :)

P.S. I replaced FBT grounding capacitor with a KAISEI (yes, in a CRT TV, the last HD capable crops which does 1080i), it actually levitated signal level and fixed factory-set black crush! That fits Jelmax's claim of what BG does in that specific position very well, proves that KAISEI indeed inherits some of BG's power even without graphite in sheet.