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A disclaimer

174.243.240.105

13th Duke of Wymbourne

In Reply to: RE: You have summed it up succinctly posted by E-Stat on January 08, 2025 at 11:35:02

I didn't read the whole thread before I posted and I've just noticed that earlier you used the phrase 'beaten into submission with correction'. Now, I think we now each other well enough by now that I am duty bound to distance myself from any insinuation that negative feedback does anything bad. What is does is (or should be) well understood and reduces distortion/artifacts. But the listener at home might not like the results, which I see as their problem to deal with rather than negative feedback's problem. I like your use of the term relevancy, I just used the analogy on PFM that jet engine thrust will not tell how enjoyable your flight will be but it does tell a lot about how well the airplane works as an airplane (yes, you could argue that low thrust means a longer flight that might be less enjoyable, or more enjoyable if you have time for another gin & tonic).

Follow Ups:

RE: A disclaimer - E-Stat 13:41:24 01/10/25 (5)
What is does is (or should be) well understood and reduces distortion/artifacts.

Decreases some and increases others . It's a matter of degrees.

jet engine thrust will not tell how enjoyable your flight will be...

Thrust is merely a measure of power (like watts) and has no qualitative aspects to it. Very much unlike what 75 db(!) of correction does to an audio signal.

I prefer using inherently more linear devices that don't require such a beating to be civil.
- RE: A disclaimer - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 14:53:50 01/10/25 (4)
  Pass makes a good point relating to Fig10 in that article that you'd have to apply 40dB of feedback to get back to where you where at 0dB (with 1% second harmonic and 0.3% third harmonic). The irony is that with 75dB of feedback you'd be much, much better off than having none! If you can actually apply 75dB of feedback that is! I look at this in two ways: designing for lowest distortion without overall negative feedback is an interesting design challenge and a noble cause but easy, designing with really high loop gains is difficult and, IMHO, beyond the capabilities of many. But, perhaps, 1% 2HD & 0.3% 3HD is perfectly acceptable so it is moot. Except that audiophiles seem to be threatened by stuff that measures well because they chose something that measures less well, even though they like what they have. And audio designers seem threatened because they don't want the market to become commoditized, which can happen if someone takes the time to master feedback and uses it to produce lower priced amplifiers.
  - Choose as you will - E-Stat 15:14:15 01/10/25 (3)
    I'm not a fan of multitudes of high order harmonics that accumulate at the top. :)
    
    Edits: 01/10/25
    - You shall not Pass - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 16:19:14 01/10/25 (2)
      Looks like Nelson has transcended guru-ship and is going for Wizard status.
      - Merely one of many - E-Stat 17:15:33 01/10/25 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: You shall not Pass posted by 13th Duke of Wymbourne on January 10, 2025 at 16:19:14
        
        who find having to put a massive filter on the output of an amp to remove copious amounts of ultrasonic garbage is not the best way to go.
        Do those who listen to Hypex amps do the same as John Atkinson must in order for the noise not to overload his gear?
        Dan D'Agostino never liked the "fuzz" always seen on square waves.
        
        Edits: 01/11/25
        
        Just as you feel about correction, I feel we'be beaten this topic into submission (nt) - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 17:36:49 01/10/25 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Merely one of many posted by E-Stat on January 10, 2025 at 17:15:33
        
        Nt

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