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found here.
I am envious of his ceiling height and power amps!
What I found interesting is how closely some of his observations mirror mine from having owned the seven foot (Ultimate steel frame) flavor for nearly twenty years.
"It's a strange sensation to hear these as the volume control is raised. They don't get loud subjectively speaking. As you walk towards them or away from them, the sound remains remarkably stable. It's an eerie sensation because most loudspeakers get loud as you crank up the volume. These don't seem to in the same way. There's a very graceful quality about their sound production that's due to their large surface area...
I've found that electrostatics have an interesting property that the sound doesn't change a lot when you walk towards or away from them. My SLs have this quality in spades. There's no audible drop out when you stand up or sit down. My La Scala horns sound great when you sit in the middle on a low sofa. When you get up the soundstage collapses. Here, not only does this not happen, it lets you walk around and if your eyes are closed, you can't really tell that much has changed. Now unavoidably the position of instruments will change, which is a function of our binaural hearing mechanism. An instrument recorded in dead center will shift left or right as your listening position changes. But its sound should not change much...
Here's an experiment to try with your loudspeaker. Walk up to it and try to listen to it at one foot or six inches or your ear against it. The huge SL G9-7c with 9' x 4' if radiating surface area sounds as composed at normal listening distances of 12-14' as it does at one foot or six inches. Surreal. There's no drop in tonality. No change in balance. Just the same sound. But the apparent immersion changes."
Similarly, I agree with his comment regarding switchers and stats. My short experiment with a Hypex amp was a failure as it didn't seem to be very happy driving mine. I would very much like to hear VTL Sigfrieds or ARC REF750SEs like his in the system. Sometimes, I need just a bit more headroom for demanding material like Rite of Spring if not just for mere seconds. :)
Follow Ups:
It's so big that it approaches an infinite baffle, and with an infinite baffle, SPL is the same no matter how closely you approach (1/R^2 for a poin source, 1/R for a line source, 1 for an infinite source).
Also, the angled loudspeaker makes a "pie slice" response, e.g., if the curve of the ESL were a radius on a speaker and you traced each edge back to the center of the circle to make a pie slice, the sound would be fairly constant if you extended the pie slice out to the listener and were within the width of the slice. In short, it should sound pretty good no matter the angle as long as you're within the limits of the pie slice.
if volume doesn't seem to change as I walk to/away from speakers or sound is good when I stand up.100% of the best sound possible in the best possible sweet spot..
Edits: 12/07/24
of its stable and coherent image.
Which for me conveys qualities that more closely match what I hear in a live environment.
Another CAF Soundlab set up with LTA electronics.
I did not have a chance to walk around the Soundlabs at CAF. The room was way too small and packed. However, I did have a very similar experience to the comments from the Soundlab owner above in the MBL room. As you walked around the speakers the "placement" of the musicians in the space was very stable. The MBL set up was very expensive.
The Soundlab, MBL and Legacy (Now Here This) rooms were among the absolute best at CAF this year. The Odyssey room was another best, but at a lower price point.
Gsquared
At least they provided green diffusors in the second pic. I use some for the side walls. :)
I'd love to experience this sensation.
But I expect this system and room are not something most of us can afford.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho
even the largest Sound Lab is not crazy expensive like many others. His was called the Audiophile 945 before they started making the narrower cell width models.
While pricing has most certainly gone up since 2020, it doesn't fall into the six figure range!
Here is the latest price sheet. Prices are up significantly since 2020 but still not in the stratosphere like some other brands.
Also note the narrow models now available for smaller listening spaces.
I'm not at all surprised based on inflation of recent past.
general inflation for the last 10 years or so. There are clearly other factors in play here. One likely factor is lots of very well-heeled foreign buyers driving prices up for everyone.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
A prudent family of four can live for a year on the price of a pair of speakers.
the Magico M9 or the Wilson Master Chronosonic among others you could fund retirement! ;)
The profit margin on these is not small. There are many diy electrostatics out there, as well as used speakers like Acoustats which seem to last forever. Those without deep pockets or an aversion to large profit margins have options. Heck, you can even pick up used Sound Labs for reasonable amounts- there is a nice used pair available locally for $3500!
unconcerned with results.BTW, I've owned various Acoustats since 1977 - not in the same ball park. I continue to enjoy my updated pair of 1+1s in the HT system. :)
Edits: 12/11/24
and I've heard Sound labs, several models over the years. The Acoustat Spectra 6600's are a more than able substitute for those both concerned about results and value. With the $40K one would save, you can buy great amps, 4 subs, DSP, room treatments, etc. and probably still have enough left for season tickets at your local concert hall. But then, you wouldn't be able to tell all your friends your speakers cost $50K...but not all of us are concerned with that result.
The Acoustat Spectra 6600's are a more than able substitute for those
Listened extensively to a pair of Spectra 6600s before buying my U-1s. None of the Acoustat products has the same level of transparency much less the superior imaging of the Sound Lab products due to the faceted panels.
But then, you wouldn't be able to tell all your friends your speakers cost $50K...but not all of us are concerned with that result.
Sorry, my observations have nothing to do with price.
Guess you didn't have them set up correctly as my experiences have been just the opposite. Proper room treatment and dsp is a game changer. No need for $50K speakers with $2000 in room treatment and dsp. My observations have everything to do with price.
and when? Perhaps you didn't hear the Sound Labs properly set up. ;)
The quality of parts used throughout reflects the budget. Also, note that Acoustat used rugged, but thick 17 micron diaphragms vs. 2.5 for Sound Lab products. From a practical standpoint, however, one brand is long dead while the other is very much alive. Good luck finding replacement transformers for Acoustat products today.
It's true I use a modicum of room treatments to achieve rather linear response in the Schroeder frequencies. Pics found in my gallery.
I don't recall specific model numbers but at least 3-4 different models over the last 10 years.
Yeah, it's possible they weren't set up optimally. That doesn't change the price/performance metric. No doubt they sound great. They should for their price. They should do the laundry and wash the dishes too for $50K.
Acoustats are indeed rugged. Many are still in service after 30-40 years. Transformers can be ordered. I could probably get a freight car full for the cost of the Sound Labs.
Room treatments only get one so far as you have noted.
Got it.That doesn't change the price/performance metric.
Exactly. You simply cannot find any Acoustat at the same level of performance. The large Sound Lab models are not intended as a "budget" solution. Folks like me were interested in better. :)
Room treatments only get one so far as you have noted.
Kindly quote the text that gave you that incorrect impression. I use what's necessary to effectively take the room out of the equation. Without adding unnecessary processing into the signal path.
Diffusion addresses room challenges DSP cannot.
BTW, kindly reference the source of replacement Acoustat transformers. Should another fail with mine, that could be useful information. The one I obtained was from former Acoustat engineer Roy Esposito who also updated my interfaces ten years ago with his "Air Mod" that bypasses the wire wound rheostat at the top. Alas, he has retired.
Edits: 12/11/24 12/11/24
I did answer the question, just not to your satisfaction apparently.
Obviously in my opinion I have found an Acoustat at the same level of performance and at a fraction of the cost. Speak for yourself. And by the way, what is your metric for performance? Why does it seem like you are simply touting your personal, biased, subjective opinion and acting like this "performance" is an objective fact? Who wouldn't pay $$$$$ for something and not think it's the best thing around? Sorry, but your opinion means nothing to me.
Your said you treat up to the Schroeder frequency. That's a limit dsp doesn't have. You haven't taken the room out of the equation. Perhaps your decreased hearing ability at higher frequencies makes further correction unnecessary.
Yes, cranky Roy retired. The new guy knows where to order transformers.
Mine covered one.
And by the way, what is your metric for performance?
Faithfulness to live, unamplified music. Transparency. Tonal balance. Freedom from beaming.
Who wouldn't pay $$$$$ for something and not think it's the best thing around?
Perhaps you buy stuff before auditioning and hope for the best. LOL!
The new guy knows where to order transformers.
So, you are still speculating. Got it!
"Faithfulness to live, unamplified music. Transparency. Tonal balance. Freedom from beaming."
Those aren't metrics, they're subjective impressions. Like I said, you are just sharing your personal opinion, which isn't fact and will differ depending on the listener. You are free to think your overpriced speakers are the best thing in the world, and I am sure for you and others who bought them, they are. As I said, I have heard several models over the years and in my opinion, the Acoustat 6600, with dsp, are preferable. Not everyone shares your opinion. Get over it.
I have spoken with Mike, the new guy, on several occasions. He tells me he can get new transformers. He's a few hours away. I have no reason to not believe him. He has worked on radio telescopes for 30 years. He knows what he's doing. Look him up and ask him before assuming I am speculating.
Hours away from where?
If comes as no surprise you're not very detail oriented. :)
It comes as no surprise that you are too lazy to do your own homework. Try google- it's an internet search engine many find useful.
the helpful community spirit!
nt
OK guys, enough is enough. 'Tis the season and all. I'm still trying to sell my 1.6 QRS pair which brought me a couple of decades worth of listening pleasure.
Merry Christmas - Happy Hanukka - May Festivus reign!
whiners are not very helpful.
Good luck on your sale!
If I had the money, I have me some Sound Labs without doubt.
Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone
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