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In Reply to: RE: The old EV T35 is not bad. posted by Alpha Al on October 19, 2023 at 19:43:06
T 35's roll off at about 8 Khz. only good for older ears, which means born at the same time as the T-35
Edits: 10/20/23Follow Ups:
I agree that they roll off above 8kHz, but they do have usable response to 15 kHz. The trick is to cross them over higher, like around 10-12kHz. That removes a lot of the harshness.
Yes, and Removing the T-35 entirely removes a lot of the harshness too. LOL
nt
all the best,
mrh
Col. Paul W. Klipsch loved 'em.
Were I a snarky Marky, I'd add, simply, 'nuff said. ;)
That said, as nasty as the T35 tended to sound in the 'heritage' Klipsch designs, EV managed to get the T35 and its lesser kin (T35B/TW35) to sound smoother -- not sure why or how (i.e., I've never thought too hard about the simple XOs used by EV - or Klipsch's, for that matter). It might be purely audio placebo reflecting my innate fondness for most things EV. :)
In seriousness, though, a couple of not-at-all-random examples: The T35B in an EV Esquire and the tweeter (presumably a T35B/TW35 variant) in the adorable and unassuming "Wolverine" LT12 coax are quite acceptible to my (yes - geriatric!) ears.
I have a passel of T35s, more than a couple of which have bad diaphragms. I have long been tempted to try some of the cheap aftermarket diaphragms currently available for them, but I've so far managed to avoide the temptation. I reckon that alignment is probably pretty tricky... plus it's hard to get excited about dissecting an EV coax (e.g., a 12TRXB) -- and I've got a few of those with dead tweeters. :(
PS the T35's big sibling (at least in terms of mass, sensitivity, and street price), the T350, seems to be cut from different (better) cloth. Again, I don't really know why, and I literally ;) cannot afford a pair of T350s, so I am far from expert on them.
all the best,
mrh
Great Plains Audio/GPA acquired the tooling from EV to make the diaphrams for the T35/T350, however they ran into a problem in sourcing suitable phenolic bases which the voice coil was wound onto. I talked to them at an audio show several years ago about this, but it does not seem like they have had any luck with it as the last time I looked at their website the T35/T350 was not even mentioned. The problem seems to be the difficulty in producing these phenolic bases with accurate and consistent weight and compliance. EV seemed to have some issues too in this regard down through the years. I had a pair of old 16 Ohm T35's and one of them had a nasty resonance. Taking them apart everything seemed mechanically nice and tight and the same, but I wound up gluing a tiny bit of extra gasket material near the outside of the voice coil which tamed the resonance down. So if you want to rephram an old T35 be prepared to do some fine tuning. Previously I rephramed a T35B some years ago with one of the then available foreign made diaphrams and was disappointed with the result. The T35 and T350 use nominally the same diaphrams, but the T350 has a larger horn and phase plug, plus a larger alnico magnet. I recall Klipsch stating at one point in a Speaker Builder/Audio Am article that they inspected all their EV tweeters for quality control. I wonder what happened to the rejects.
Paul
This is why I say, ABANDON SHIP on 65 year old technology and BUY tweeters from B&C or Faital or BMS, or anyone else making modern compression super tweeters. NOT WORTH THE EFFORT AND DOLLARS AND TIME.
It all comes down to the equipment break-in time effect, which is much discussed in audiophile circles. Mem-ristance, or memory resistance is actually being studied in the ever increasing effort to miniaturize the transistor for computers, as the electrical resistance of a conductor can change when it is used in an operating circuit. Also being looked at is mem-inductance and mem-capacitance, as scientists had wondered why the basic electrical perameters of resistance, capacitance and inductance were a 3 part package when most physical forces had two opposing parts. Adding the 3 missing "mem" components to the basic 3 makes for a 6 part field of perameters which are nicely divisible by 2. The reason why all the old audio stuff is still valued is that it's taken some 65 years to break it in! Tom Brennan has posed the question here once of "How come it never sounds worse?" after the requisite break in time some audiophiles claimed. And the answer is "It can, and sometimes does". That is why audiophiles are always looking to upgrade their equipment. And the manufacturers are aware of this of course.
What's Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander Dept.
A seldom looked at factor in audio is the break-in effect on the audiophile's hearing. It has been said on this forum that if the audiophile is in the 64+ year old class, that they cant hear anything over 12K Hz. This is likely a mixed blessing as CRT screens, with their flyback transformers singing at some 13K Hz, are disappearing from everyday life. I can hear the 16K Hz test signal on the Stereophile Test CD on my EV T350's, so that must make me super human in that regard. However I cant hear the 20K signal track, though the test microphone can. It's just as well as at 20K it's just all bat chirps, and that would drive me nuts. Tom Danley has said that in his investigations that you probably could ear a 20K Hz signal "If it's loud enough", but I aint gonna use my tweeters as fuses. Even a 300B SET amp could blow em.
Paul
Don't yell, Claude.
Edits: 10/28/23
enn tee
all the best,
mrh
I have a low tolerance and high level of frustrations for people who refuse to let go of old crap and refuse to buy better components with inflated dollars. As if there was "magic" in the old stuff that's surfferred the ravages of time.
Edits: 10/28/23
The treble of the heritage Klipsch designs was ghastly.
If he/they selected drivers, one might reasonably infer that the rejects sounded better.
It was a joke.
Humor is lost on you, perhaps?
Very sad if that's the case.
My suggestion: Don't take this stuff too seriously. Bad for the psyche.
all the best,
mrh
When seeking or sharing real information, I do take it seriously.Don't you? Or is this just a flippant answer as substitute for otherwise useful data you don't have to contribute?
Maybe I should simply use the missing sense of humor and laugh at the photo of a crappy looking pair of old speakers you posted?
What should I have a sense of humor about, since, apparently, I missed the point or don't belong to a secret club here?
Edits: 10/28/23 10/28/23
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