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I never got to listen to them. Seems like a cheap and easy way to get into SET.Either the Abby or Madisound BK-16 at my budget.
Dennis
Follow Ups:
I agree with triodesteve. I have Abbys in the living room (because of the high WAF), and Coincident Partial Eclipses in my listening room. The Abbys don't have the detail and range of the PE's, but they do a lot of things well. They're musical and fun to listen to, and actually do have a lot of detail for a single driver in this price range. They are also the least directional speakers I have owned--they sound good everywhere in the room and beyond.
Two things I would recommend, though. One is try the 'nearfield' version with the Fostex FF165K, rather than the standard version with the F166E. Mine came standard, but I switched to the 165's and I found them much better. Second, give the Fostex's a lot of time to break in; mine sounded like a bad radio out of the box, but were different speakers after a hundred hours or so.
Yup, mostly definitely go with the nearfield version with FF165K, even if you don't listen so nearfield.
I have a feeling those who didn't like their Abby audition usually didn't like those whizzer cones on the standard Fostex..
If music is what you are looking for then check them out. If you want a speaker that does great numbers at the frequency extremes or can resolve a gnat farting 500 feet from the microphone then look elsewhere.
Terry's shop system always made great music...it didn't matter if it was Abbies or big double horns playing.
Steve
Steve
Sorry, but my crocked impression was the other way around if the music is what you looking for. Different strokes.....
Regards L
Not trying to argue your point of view, I fully appreciate it even though I am a Cain & Cain owner. Just wondering which of the C&C speakers you heard and what the systems driving them were like? Also, how big were the rooms.
I have the IM-Bens(plus Bailey subs) and don't consider them to be the "greatest ever", but do enjoy how they recreate music. It just feels right for me, personally. But, I also have friends who do not like them - usually the 100dB+ true compression horn guys.
One thing I do know for sure, those Fostex drivers take longer to break in than any other speaker I have ever come across. A lot of people assume they're broken in from a few months of 20 hours a week playing. No way, I'd say a minimum of 400 hours and probably twice that(or more) for complete run-in.
how some people have so firmly and quickly decided that certain speakers are no good.
But you know and I know from what he's saying that there is no way he spent any quality time in an appropriate setup with any Cain & Cain speakers.
And oh, don't ever sell your IM-Ben's. If you do, drop me a line :)
If someone doesn't like something and you do:
1. Didn't give it enough break-in time is the usual.
2. Must not have heard it under optimal conditions.
3. Amplifier is suspect.
4. Or just insult them, like they are quick to judge, etc....
I spent some time with the Abby's. The more I listend to them the less I liked them. I thought his Ben whatever speakers were quite smooth and nice, though a subwoofer seemed like a requirement, but the Abby's were quite harsh. My wife's jugdement was less kind so he is not alone in his assessment. Which simply means someone should listen to the speakers before he buys them and people like different things.
nt
What amp did you use?
Were you listening near-field?
FWIW, I prefer the Abby's to the BEN's.
The Abby's are very revealing of flaws upstream. Even can be harsh with a bad CD player(or even a fairly decent one).
I'd only use Abby's with vinyl or a VERY good "0" up-sampling DAC.
Nobody here but us chickens.
_________________________
I think they were broken in, but I can't say for sure.
What amp did you use? - ASL 2a3 (Tulip?)
Were you listening near-field? - No, they were the regular abbys
FWIW, I prefer the Abby's to the BEN's - really? That's cool, my wife and I both thought the Ben's were smoother, though lacking in bass without a subwoofer. You could be right though.
The Abby's are very revealing of flaws upstream. Even can be harsh with a bad CD player(or even a fairly decent one) - I can't even remember what they had hooked up.
I'd only use Abby's with vinyl or a VERY good "0" up-sampling DAC - It was a CD player of some sort if memory serves, not vinyl for sure and I don't think it was an upsampling DAC (I don't particularly care for upsampling myself).
What amp did you use? - ASL 2a3 (Tulip?)
Now, I can see why you came away with the impression you did. In my opinion, the Abbys aren't a good candidate for most 2A3 SETs and are better suited to "fleshier" tubes. Pairing Abbys with 2A3's would seem to be "too much of a good thing", since they share very similar traits.
Oddly though, the Almarro A205A is a very accurate SEP and it is terrific match with the Abbys.
That's cool, my wife and I both thought the Ben's were smoother, though lacking in bass without a subwoofer.
Yes, that's my impression, too. The Abbys can sound far, far, better with a subwoofer involved. I own the much larger I-Bens(driver & cabinet) and I think their meatier midrange/midbass helps tremendously by sounding more fleshed out. Still, I think the Bens benefit greatly from a subwoofer - I use a pair of Cain Bailey subs. After, firing up the subs, i could never go back to the Bens without them.
Ivan303 - The Abby's are very revealing of flaws upstream. Even can be harsh with a bad CD player(or even a fairly decent one)
Yes they are. but, they are also walking that fine line close to a thin(but, not thin) sound which makes them almost hyper-revealing. So, any edgi-ness or hardness is going to tip the scales way over the line.
With the right amps, though, the can be glorious.
Although I have heard Abby's sound very good on Terry's ElectronLuv 2A3 mono-blocks, those were not your typical SET 2A3.
The Abby's I heard in my system were driven by DIY HIFI Supply "Billies" with WE 300B's and a ton of upgraded parts which are fairly rich tonally.
IMHO, 300B SET is about as low power wise as I would go with Abby's. Have also heard Abby's with Gordon Rankin's 300B amps and they were a very good match.
Nobody here but us chickens.
_________________________
No ,I don't think it was a firm statement. What amaze me is a blind following or worshiping products which are just average and Abbys are like that -average. Fostex driver is just average too .I have 1.5 year experience with 208e Sigma and its a dead sounding speaker. Please excuse me this , I'm average, poor rat and not looking/knocking down any product, but this few times I heard Abbys they did nothing to me ,especially tonally.
I heard Bailey big system only once a couple years back in RMAF and it was terrible sounding. I mentioned this on the forum and Terry's answer was the show condition and some equipment mismatch (Electronoluv )I don't know but from all the shows it was the worst by far big system I ever heard. It was so bad that I really don't know why nobody even mentioned that. Tonally gray with offending tweeter implementation (I think that people were actually pleased with this constant glycerine machine gun ). Elephant sized voices and sources spread on the stage without any order.
Thats why I'm not big fan of Cain & Cain speakers .On the other hand I'm a user of equally bad "BD design" like solution (Azura +Klipshorn)because
usually I act faster with my wallet/CC than my brain.Well if music has any soul &sense one can mostly listen on anything , even boombox is pleasing.
I'd really would not like to get involved in any heated discussion about the subject.If I got all of this wrong well it's my loss ,luck of taste/experience and bad fortune. Regards, L
Limono, you do not seem to like the azura horns
with lowther dx3 (if i remember). Can you tell us
how it is sounding? What horn have you got?
What are the pbs? Thanks,
Vincent.
"how some people have so firmly and quickly decided that certain speakers are no good."Well, I come to accept that we all have our "thing" when it comes to the sonic trade-offs necessary in musical reproduction
Compression horn fans won't get the explosive dynamics they are used to out of any boxed speaker. Nor will they scale large passages as effortlessly, and that's a deal-breaker for many. So, I understand where they are coming from. I'm a bigger fan of tonality and richness.
But, I do know there is a sizable performance difference between my Fostex drivers at 400 hours compared to 800+.
Also, I've come to appreciate that room acoustics usually account for more than 60% of perceived sound in the vast majority of setups, so I often wonder what the room is like and affiliated equipment.
And oh, don't ever sell your IM-Ben's. If you do, drop me a line :)
A few months ago, I would have said that's never gonna be possible. But, i just sold my 4 bedroom house and so far have not been able to find a 2 bed apartment or house(in my price range) with a large enough living room. I'll give it 6 more months without music, and then I may have to rethink my speakers.
The one pair of Abbys I heard were a bit harsh for my taste. Could've been program material (pop CD); I doubt it was the amplification (MC-225).
I have a pair of Fostex FE-207E's in conventional bass reflex enclosures that are sweeter sounding to my ears.
...FWIW...
all the best,
mrh
Could also be the amplification. Those classic Macs have a LOT of feedback; to my ear they sound closer to solid state than to SET. Others' ears may differ of course ... :^)
The Fostex fullrange speakers (Fostices?) are not everyone's cup of tea, but (again, to my ear) the Abby gets more out of them than most implementations I've heard. I generally think of it as, speakers like this don't strive for perfection, they strive for synergy of (inevitable) imperfections.
Anything that looks, smells or tastes like "Solid Scrape" is suspect with Abby's.
I've heard the near-field? Abby's in my system with 300B monoblocks and a very good room, and I thought they were great. Especially for the money.
Best show sound with Abby's was HE2005? in San Francisco with Art Audio amplification, Terry's Teres TT sitting on a hotel plastic waste paper basket filled with sand. ;-)
Rooms at the old Fairmont Hotel were decent sized, had very high 12 ft. ceilings, thick walls, lots of thick, floor to ceiling drapes covering the tall, narrow windows, etc.
Clearly one of the BEST SOUNDS IN SHOW according to many people who attended! The room was packed with people flowing out into the hallway for the whole show.
Nobody here but us chickens.
_________________________
Over time they certainly mellow out and the bass has become much more alive. You're welcome back at the drop of your hat to hear a different source.....
Smiling,
W
... it is certainly possible that was the source of my grumpy assessment of them.
They are beautiful speakers, and ought to sound good.
Are the drivers FE-166E, FE-167E, FE-206E, or FE-207E?
(needless to say, I would like to hear 'em again sometime)
all the best,
mrh
Terry was a great guy but his speakers were nothing to talk about -they surely looked great though (if somebody is into that aesthetic)No offense to anybody just my (and a few others ) opinion. Regards
I never see those used. I check both Audiogon and Ebay.How much money is needed for a used one (the newer one with RB1000)? I have a Scout now and have never listened to the P9. I may or may not like it---just have to take a listen someday.Maybe I could buy your extra P9 platter and make my own.
Dennis
I like it a lot, but its a never ending story you know .Now I'm selling my other table just to buy a good cartridge. Used P9 sells for over $2k .Looking at that table it's really hard to justify the expense but I really don't have much of experience with better analog.I have a friendly dealer who carries VPI and doesn't like Rega (or Linn) tables it would be interesting to compare the sound of the Rega to VPI. I don't have the platter anymore. Regards, L
That's because Terry Cain, the designer, passed away. However, it is my understanding that his shop sold to a prior associate of his and that production of his speakers continues, probably on an on-demand basis but it'd be easy to check by going to their website.
and is under the supervision of Terry's partner Jason.
The company is now called Cain & Cain /Lovecraft designs.
All of Terry's speaker's speakers are still being made including the new Wall-o-Sound speakers,designed by Gordan Rankin of Wavelength.
The web site is still up...I'm surprised that certain members of the audio press that gave so much attention to Terry's illness aren't following up on the current state of the company, and his new speaker.
For the inmates interested...
http://lovecraftdesigns.com/index.html
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