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In Reply to: RE: what are your five favorite recordings for listening to on headphones? posted by mbnx01 on July 08, 2013 at 19:53:05
1. The Well, Jennifer Warnes
2. The Hunter, Jennifer Warnes
3. Mahler's 6th Symphony Karagian and BOP I think
4. Howie Gelb/Giant Sand, Blurry Blue Mountain
5. Julian, Bream, Ultimate Guitar Collection CD2
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Follow Ups:
The 2A3 "powered" Stratus headphone amplifier from Donald North Audio.
But you're right: headphones will never deliver the soundstage and imaging of speakers, esp small monitors. The best you can hope for is some channel separation...seriously.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
... with binaural recordings (even though some headphones will seem to sound more spacious and three-dimensional than others, regardless of the recordings). Chesky Records makes audiophile quality binaural recordings for those who might care to find out just how well their headphones can perform this feat...
Edits: 07/22/13
...
Edits: 07/19/13
Yeah, binaural. Never has been a viable (sellable) technology. It's not compatible with speakers so whatcha gonna do? You listen to 2nd string artists doing this special recording on headphones.
Hate to be snarky about it but when "they" solve the compatibility of binaural with regular stereo or surround, then that's when it will be readily available in a listenable form for everyone. Hey, it will sound great.
I made my own binaural recordings for years and, yes, they sound marvelous on headphones.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
Actually the new Chesky binaurals are very compatible for speakers as well as David Chesky developed a new method and he will tell you they are for speakers also and i am using them on the speakers as well and they image well.
Perhaps Chesky is the vanguard of binaural stereo that sounds good on speakers.
But here's the thing. If it is as good as you say it is, will the industry follow David's lead?
If they do, it will be the first time, ever.
I hope they do, but I don't think they will.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
The product will be as most high end products are a niche but the music is good and I will continue to support the format because they sound great. David doing a great job with the binaural stuff. Give them a try they are excellent disc especially the Amber Rubarth disc.
The mainstream also did not support sacd but I keep buying them and they are also available in bountiful abundance and great reissues being done as well as new recordings.
It's just that the last fifty years of attempts at making binaural viable in the marketplace have gone nowhere.
I hope you're right.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
The last fifteen years or so have brought us way more (and better) headphone designs, way more (and better) compact audio systems designed for nearfield and/or headphone use, and way more headphone audiophiles than the previous thirty-five years combined. High-end headphone systems are the thing for the newest crop of audiophiles, simply put. Of course, this will always be a "niche hobby" by most standards but the equipment needs and the need for headphone specific recordings are changing, accordingly. Binaural has never had a better chance of succeeding than it does today.I'm betting that the demand for things like binaural recordings will only continue to grow in the near future - but I also think that more of us need to start bugging the bigger recording labels (labels much bigger than Chesky!) about it. The "bigger labels" that have shown an interest in producing great sounding recordings might be Blue Note, DG, Hyperion, Decca, Naxos, Channel Classics, ECM, Harmonia Mundi (for starters)...
Edits: 07/25/13 07/27/13 08/10/13
Binaural is/was a completely "viable" technology. However, it is one that requires special recording equipment and techniques that typical recording studios have had no real use for. And, while binaural has been viewed as an "audiophile" technology, it has never had the market potential it needed to succeed in the past - partly because the typical audiophile has always owned loudspeakers and because they have eschewed headphones as a sort of second-rate way to listen to music. Also, "multi-channel" was seen by the audio industry as the most profitable new gimmick they could possibly sell. All this is now changing!It is also a myth that binaural recordings are "not compatible" with two-channel loudspeaker setups. Refined binuaral recording techniques have clearly shown this, as Chesky records has demonstrated. The same binaural recordings that sound so great with headphones now work extremely well with loudspeakers. In fact, binaural might surpass the potential for spatial realism that space-hogging multi-channel loudspeaker arrays once promised to deliver.
The time for binaural technology has finally arrived. A new crop of young(er) audiophiles are following (rather than fighting) mass market trends and compact audio solutions like desktop headphone systems are the rage among them. It is now up to the major recording studios to follow cue and begin investing in binaural recording technology. If/when that ever happens, music lovers (of all ages) will be hard pressed to deny the "viability" of binaural recordings or headphone-based audiophile systems.
Edits: 07/17/13 07/17/13 07/17/13 07/17/13
You're such an optimist, or something.
"All this is now changing!"
Headphones are more popular now, mostly with young people. They're cheaper and sound good for the money. It has nothing to do with binaural.
I have never heard a binaural recording sound like anything but big monaural over loudspeakers. I haven't heard the Cheskys on speakers. That's one company. I have been listening to binaural since the 60s and making binaural recordings since the 70s. I think I know what most binaural recordings sound like over loudspeakers. They're crap.
"The time for binaural technology has finally arrived." It's been arriving since the 50s. Show me the arrival.
"The new crop of younger audiophiles are following (rather than fighting) mass market trends"
Really? They've ALWAYS followed mass market trends. That's why the mass market does so well and the audiophile market has that specialized sliver of market presence.
I really love your vision of the future and I want to live on that planet. Beam me up now.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
Actually, I have no "vision of the future". But, I am hopeful...And, I think I can say with confidence that some people are unaware of the potential of modern binaural recording technology. Binaural recordings available in years previous were not necessarily made to audiophile standards, nor were they made to sound good on both headphones and two-channel loudspeaker setups. In the past (unlike today), recordings made to exploit the potential of headphones could never have made much of a dent in the marketplace.
You are, however, right in saying that one of the reasons why headphones are more popular today is because they are cheaper than loudspeakers. Headphones are also more popular than ever because compact audio is probably the only type of audio that can be expected to succeed in today's marketplace. For these reasons (though there are other reasons), the modern audiophile is also likely to be a headphone person.
The time is ripe for the "missing link" in the modern audiophile's setup to be exploited. But, until we realize and/or admit that recordings made to sound correct on loudspeakers are not necessarily the best thing for us, our hobby will not continue to move forward as it might otherwise do.
There are some incredibly advanced headphones being made for audiophiles today. What a shame it is that the recordings we are listening to are not of the correct type for headphone use. Things are not up to snuff.
Edits: 07/18/13 07/18/13
| Hate to be snarky about it but when "they" solve the compatibility of binaural with regular stereo or surround, then that's when it will be readily available in a listenable form for everyone. Hey, it will sound great.
The technology is solved. You have more than two channels. Just like DVD's can have multiple language soundtracks.
The will is the problem. Actually I bet 80% of pop music today is consumed on headphones. Why aren't most of these binaural recordings?
"The technology is solved. You have more than two channels. Just like DVD's can have multiple language soundtracks."
Why do you need more than two channels for binaural? Isn't that all you need?
"The will is the problem. Actually I bet 80% of pop music today is consumed on headphones. Why aren't most of these binaural recordings?"
I give up. Why aren't they? Perhaps it's because these recording have a zillion tracks/edits. Do we really have the technology today to make these sound natural/good/better?
I weary of the binaural story. I've been hearing it for at least fifty years. So, where's the payoff? Yes, you can listen to a binaural recording and be amazed. I've done it many times. But the reality is, it ain't happenin' in the real world.
Your turn.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
"Why do you need more than two channels for binaural? Isn't that all you need?"I meant a 4 channel distribution format where you could choose stereo or binaural. All the downloadable digital formats could support it with little effort.
"I give up. Why aren't they? Perhaps it's because these recording have a zillion tracks/edits. Do we really have the technology today to make these sound natural/good/better?"
If it were expected that modern recordings come in stereo and binaural, then it would happen soon enough. The editing software would be designed to edit them in parallel.
It isn't there because 99% of people had no idea it exists. If Steve Jobs cared about audio seriously, it would have happened because he would have ordered it into iTunes and iPod and sold it as a magic new mind blowing SteveSound.
All the recording companies could have sold updated SteveSound editions with a minor remastering.
Edits: 08/15/13 08/15/13 08/15/13
I am new to the headphone side of audio, longtime music lover and audiophile. The favorite music gives me suggestions to make a decision of whether or not to continue on this path. There is another site that enjoys lots of traffic, and I assume that the demographic is young. I don't know that for sure but the conversations lead me to believe that. My system is all analog and I just purchased a headphone amp and headphones to be able to listen now that my wife and I are retired. So far it doesn't impress me, with that said the image is small and compressed compared to my 3-way speaker system that gives imaging from wall to wall. The detail is great on the headphones so I will continue my quest for something that pleases me.
Listening to music supplied by cd is not as engaging as my tt thru the headphones.
Do you folks listen to records thru headphones or is it all digital?
Thanks
I assume you are referring to Head-Fi and I believe you are mostly right about the ages of the posters.
Headphones will never give you the soundstage of speakers. Open headphones will come closest while closed will give a narrower picture with better isolation.
You don't say what headphones you own or what music you listen to. Maybe if folks knew that, they could better help you.
Below is a site you might find interesting, Head-Fi but vinyl oriented.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
Travis, My first set of cans are grado sr80's and the second set is the Fostex t50rp's with the Mayflower mods. The Grados are ok but remind me of two cups of sandpaper over my ears and sound similar to the transistor radio I grew up with. Really not that bad but very uncomfortable. The Fostex are very detailed and image very well but they are closed in giving that kind of a feeling. I have a Matrix M stage with the burr brown class a biasing mod, seems very nice and a good match with the fostex. I am going to RMAF show in October and look forward to hearing the High end Grado's amd the Sennheiser 650's. I am most interested in the 650's because I can use a tube amp, all of my main system is tubes. I am using a Music Reference rm4+ phono stage with the Matrix. All and all an ok starting point.
Thanks for the web site referral.
I think the headphones you have are entry level. The Matrix is a great budget amp. The sennheiser 650 would be a step up over those other cans big time. If you let us know your budget we can make some recommendation but on headfi you can find all the answers more so than here on this forum.
I found my Grado 325is uncomfortable as well until I changed the pads to the G-Cushions. They make a wider soundstage and are more comfy. I use an all tube Woo headphone amp with them and my BeyerDynamic DT660 (closed) and DT880 (semi open). I also have an iFI iCAN which can bump up the low bass and create an even wider soundstage.
I confess that since I got a new turntable, I've gone back to listening to speakers more than I used to. Vinyl can somwhow create a nice wide soundstage.
Like all things audio, it's a journey. I predict you will come to really like the headphone experience.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
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