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In Reply to: RE: A good headphone sytem will "soundstage" surprisingly well... posted by genungo on July 16, 2013 at 15:27:02
Yeah, binaural. Never has been a viable (sellable) technology. It's not compatible with speakers so whatcha gonna do? You listen to 2nd string artists doing this special recording on headphones.
Hate to be snarky about it but when "they" solve the compatibility of binaural with regular stereo or surround, then that's when it will be readily available in a listenable form for everyone. Hey, it will sound great.
I made my own binaural recordings for years and, yes, they sound marvelous on headphones.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
Follow Ups:
Actually the new Chesky binaurals are very compatible for speakers as well as David Chesky developed a new method and he will tell you they are for speakers also and i am using them on the speakers as well and they image well.
Perhaps Chesky is the vanguard of binaural stereo that sounds good on speakers.
But here's the thing. If it is as good as you say it is, will the industry follow David's lead?
If they do, it will be the first time, ever.
I hope they do, but I don't think they will.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
The product will be as most high end products are a niche but the music is good and I will continue to support the format because they sound great. David doing a great job with the binaural stuff. Give them a try they are excellent disc especially the Amber Rubarth disc.
The mainstream also did not support sacd but I keep buying them and they are also available in bountiful abundance and great reissues being done as well as new recordings.
It's just that the last fifty years of attempts at making binaural viable in the marketplace have gone nowhere.
I hope you're right.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
The last fifteen years or so have brought us way more (and better) headphone designs, way more (and better) compact audio systems designed for nearfield and/or headphone use, and way more headphone audiophiles than the previous thirty-five years combined. High-end headphone systems are the thing for the newest crop of audiophiles, simply put. Of course, this will always be a "niche hobby" by most standards but the equipment needs and the need for headphone specific recordings are changing, accordingly. Binaural has never had a better chance of succeeding than it does today.I'm betting that the demand for things like binaural recordings will only continue to grow in the near future - but I also think that more of us need to start bugging the bigger recording labels (labels much bigger than Chesky!) about it. The "bigger labels" that have shown an interest in producing great sounding recordings might be Blue Note, DG, Hyperion, Decca, Naxos, Channel Classics, ECM, Harmonia Mundi (for starters)...
Edits: 07/25/13 07/27/13 08/10/13
Binaural is/was a completely "viable" technology. However, it is one that requires special recording equipment and techniques that typical recording studios have had no real use for. And, while binaural has been viewed as an "audiophile" technology, it has never had the market potential it needed to succeed in the past - partly because the typical audiophile has always owned loudspeakers and because they have eschewed headphones as a sort of second-rate way to listen to music. Also, "multi-channel" was seen by the audio industry as the most profitable new gimmick they could possibly sell. All this is now changing!It is also a myth that binaural recordings are "not compatible" with two-channel loudspeaker setups. Refined binuaral recording techniques have clearly shown this, as Chesky records has demonstrated. The same binaural recordings that sound so great with headphones now work extremely well with loudspeakers. In fact, binaural might surpass the potential for spatial realism that space-hogging multi-channel loudspeaker arrays once promised to deliver.
The time for binaural technology has finally arrived. A new crop of young(er) audiophiles are following (rather than fighting) mass market trends and compact audio solutions like desktop headphone systems are the rage among them. It is now up to the major recording studios to follow cue and begin investing in binaural recording technology. If/when that ever happens, music lovers (of all ages) will be hard pressed to deny the "viability" of binaural recordings or headphone-based audiophile systems.
Edits: 07/17/13 07/17/13 07/17/13 07/17/13
You're such an optimist, or something.
"All this is now changing!"
Headphones are more popular now, mostly with young people. They're cheaper and sound good for the money. It has nothing to do with binaural.
I have never heard a binaural recording sound like anything but big monaural over loudspeakers. I haven't heard the Cheskys on speakers. That's one company. I have been listening to binaural since the 60s and making binaural recordings since the 70s. I think I know what most binaural recordings sound like over loudspeakers. They're crap.
"The time for binaural technology has finally arrived." It's been arriving since the 50s. Show me the arrival.
"The new crop of younger audiophiles are following (rather than fighting) mass market trends"
Really? They've ALWAYS followed mass market trends. That's why the mass market does so well and the audiophile market has that specialized sliver of market presence.
I really love your vision of the future and I want to live on that planet. Beam me up now.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
Actually, I have no "vision of the future". But, I am hopeful...And, I think I can say with confidence that some people are unaware of the potential of modern binaural recording technology. Binaural recordings available in years previous were not necessarily made to audiophile standards, nor were they made to sound good on both headphones and two-channel loudspeaker setups. In the past (unlike today), recordings made to exploit the potential of headphones could never have made much of a dent in the marketplace.
You are, however, right in saying that one of the reasons why headphones are more popular today is because they are cheaper than loudspeakers. Headphones are also more popular than ever because compact audio is probably the only type of audio that can be expected to succeed in today's marketplace. For these reasons (though there are other reasons), the modern audiophile is also likely to be a headphone person.
The time is ripe for the "missing link" in the modern audiophile's setup to be exploited. But, until we realize and/or admit that recordings made to sound correct on loudspeakers are not necessarily the best thing for us, our hobby will not continue to move forward as it might otherwise do.
There are some incredibly advanced headphones being made for audiophiles today. What a shame it is that the recordings we are listening to are not of the correct type for headphone use. Things are not up to snuff.
Edits: 07/18/13 07/18/13
| Hate to be snarky about it but when "they" solve the compatibility of binaural with regular stereo or surround, then that's when it will be readily available in a listenable form for everyone. Hey, it will sound great.
The technology is solved. You have more than two channels. Just like DVD's can have multiple language soundtracks.
The will is the problem. Actually I bet 80% of pop music today is consumed on headphones. Why aren't most of these binaural recordings?
"The technology is solved. You have more than two channels. Just like DVD's can have multiple language soundtracks."
Why do you need more than two channels for binaural? Isn't that all you need?
"The will is the problem. Actually I bet 80% of pop music today is consumed on headphones. Why aren't most of these binaural recordings?"
I give up. Why aren't they? Perhaps it's because these recording have a zillion tracks/edits. Do we really have the technology today to make these sound natural/good/better?
I weary of the binaural story. I've been hearing it for at least fifty years. So, where's the payoff? Yes, you can listen to a binaural recording and be amazed. I've done it many times. But the reality is, it ain't happenin' in the real world.
Your turn.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
"Why do you need more than two channels for binaural? Isn't that all you need?"I meant a 4 channel distribution format where you could choose stereo or binaural. All the downloadable digital formats could support it with little effort.
"I give up. Why aren't they? Perhaps it's because these recording have a zillion tracks/edits. Do we really have the technology today to make these sound natural/good/better?"
If it were expected that modern recordings come in stereo and binaural, then it would happen soon enough. The editing software would be designed to edit them in parallel.
It isn't there because 99% of people had no idea it exists. If Steve Jobs cared about audio seriously, it would have happened because he would have ordered it into iTunes and iPod and sold it as a magic new mind blowing SteveSound.
All the recording companies could have sold updated SteveSound editions with a minor remastering.
Edits: 08/15/13 08/15/13 08/15/13
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