In Reply to: So... if I tell you that I've tried both and my way works best, will that convince you? posted by Duke on March 8, 2007 at 11:36:37:
That's my point.You could buy an extra subwoofer or two ... and hear no improvement, or hear a deteriorated bass frequency response ... meaning your money should have been used for upgrading the front speakers ... or upgrading some other components ... or given to your favorite charity.
Measuring bass by using frequency response standard deviations is not going to tell you whether the bass frequency response at YOUR SEAT sounds good.
It only takes one bass peak to ruin the reproduction of one bass guitar note or one bass drum strike -- the rest of the bass frequency response could be ruler flat causing a pretty good standard deviation measurement ... but the bassline won't sound right (and could sound horrible if the bass drum excites that one bass peak)!
Tom Nousaine found that fully exciting every room mode with a corner subwoofer is usually a good thing for bass if the resulting bass peaks are well distributed ... because our ear's one-third smoothing ability can work well on well-distributed bass peaks.
If you had three bass peaks under 80Hz. from standing waves (typical room) and could eliminate two of them, you might think the bass would sound better.
In reality, the one remaining bass peak is likely to be more audible and more annoying than it was before, possibly making the overall subjective bass quality worse than it was with three bass peaks.
The most serious bass problem in small rooms is insufficient modal density under 100Hz.
There are not enough bass peaks and nulls under 100Hz. for our ear's one-third octave smoothing ability to smooth out.
Above 200-300Hz there are so many standing wave and 1/4 wavelength cancellation peaks and nulls that they can be blended together by our one-third octave smoothing ability and we can't hear them.
Most common among people who try more than two subwoofers is placing ALL the subwoofers on the ground where they will ALL excite the very important first-order axial floor-to-ceiling standing wave (71Hz, boom with a 8 foot ceiling ... 56.5Hz. boom with a 10 foot ceiling).
Tom Nousaine found this to be the main reason five "surround" subwoofers did not outperform one subwoofer in a corner (other than having higher maximum SPL).
All the five "surround" subwoofers were located on the floor and caused a huge boom at 71Hz. -- the last thing you want when trying to reproduce a bassline just as the bass musician played it.
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Richard BassNut Greene
Subjective Audiophile 2007
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Follow Ups
- Adding a third or fourth subwoofer may improve bass at your seat in your room ... or maybe make it worse! - Richard BassNut Greene 08:26:52 03/09/07 (12)
- Adding additional subs almost always results in smoothing. - Duke 09:29:21 03/09/07 (11)
- $10,000 says my one subwoofer + parametric EQ will be smoother than your three or four subwoofers in 9 out of 10 rooms - Richard BassNut Greene 13:40:32 03/09/07 (10)
- Depends on parameters of the contest - Duke 14:13:09 03/09/07 (9)
- Three or four "scattered subwoofers" all located on the floor = sonic disaster - Richard BassNut Greene 09:23:41 03/10/07 (8)
- not true - Duke 13:58:37 03/10/07 (7)
- Re: some comments - twelti 15:54:39 03/11/07 (6)
- Your paper applies to surround sound but many readers assume 4 subs are best for two-channel - Richard BassNut Greene 08:31:20 03/12/07 (2)
- Re: Your paper applies to surround sound but many readers assume 4 subs are best for two-channel - twelti 21:45:37 03/12/07 (1)
- My mind is open on a third or fourth subwoofer for two channel audio. You seem to have only conclusions. - Richard BassNut Greene 08:53:53 03/13/07 (0)
- Re: some comments - Duke 16:22:24 03/11/07 (2)
- Re: some comments - twelti 19:12:15 03/11/07 (1)
- "Heated exchange"??? - Richard BassNut Greene 09:12:33 03/12/07 (0)