Home SET Asylum

Single Ended Triodes (SETs), the ultimate tube lovers dream.

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] Thread: [ Display  All  Email ] [ SET Asylum ]
[ Alert Moderator ]

RE: Yeah, I get that- seen it in spades.

"Sounding loud and sounding dynamic are not the same perceptually."

"Yes and no... both come from higher ordered harmonics. Music has a lot of transients- that's where the power usually is needed. In an SET, when these transients occur, if they happen at a power level where the amp's linearity is reduced (usually about 20-25% and above) then the higher orders show up on the transients and nowhere else. That makes them sound dynamic. At higher levels though it becomes 'loud'. This is why so many SET owners seem to think that 85dB is all the 'louder' they need."


The answer is just no. You may have heard the term "micro"dynamics? This is where little, seemingly subtle shifts, in intensity can make or break realism. Things like action of a pedal on a piano or a clack on the rim of a snare. The initial draw of a bow on a string etc. These are not loud in the context of SPL but there is a relatively large shift in level.

Dynamics is the shift in level, loudness is the level.

For a car analogy: Dynamics is like acceleration and loudness is like velocity.

Speakers and especially amps that are dynamic show this prowess at ALL listening levels. Because the realism is retained throughout the SPL range. Quiet sounds shifting in level, loud sounds shifting in level...dynamics is about the shift, the speed of the shift and how accurately the shifts final level and speed is captured... not the actual SPL.

High order harmonics from the electronics has nothing to do with this perception. It has to do with accurate tracking of the recording of all these subtleties and tracking the shifts accurately as they would have occurred on the recording...or in real life.

One of the most disturbing effects of negative feedback that I have heard is this loss of natural dyanmics. The sound is so tied down that it no longer breathes like it should. I think that when you are feeding back the output to the input you are also somehow blunting these dynamic cues from the music...you are not only removing distortion (or creating new harmonics).

All of the best amps I have heard from a dynamic expressiveness perspective were zero feedback designs.

I would have thought, given your bigger models at least seem to be feedback free (the S30 at least is not I believe) that you would understand what I mean here and that it has nothing to do with loudness per se but the perception of a shift in level that reminds one of what one hears live. This could mean a very high instantaneous SPL but one that would be gone almost before it is perceived. However, it is prevalent (or absent) at all SPL.

No SS with feedback and no Class D I have owned or heard has the same "acceleration" as a good no feedback amp.

I realize that not everyone hears this properly so they are not bothered by it's absence, but once heard and understood it distinguishes true high end from mere hifi.


Edits: 10/18/21
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
  Kimber Kable  

Follow Ups Full Thread
Follow Ups
FAQ

Post a Message!

 Forgot Password?
Moniker (Username):
Password (Optional):
  Remember my Moniker & Password  (What's this?)    Eat Me
E-Mail (Optional):
Subject:
Message:   (Posts are subject to Content Rules)
Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:
Optional Image URL:
Upload Image:
E-mail Replies:  Automagically notify you when someone responds.

[ Top Top of Page ] [ Contact Us ] [ Support/Wish List ] [ Copyright © 2025, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ General ] [ Speakers ] [ Tubes ] [ Vinyl ] [ Digital ] [ Hi-Rez ] [ Video Asylum ] [ Cables ] [ Tweaks/DIY ] [ Music ] [ Films ]