In Reply to: Re: I'm just not sure about one thing posted by morricab on November 25, 2006 at 18:22:50:
Of course, my idea of natural sound has not been verified, either.Musician? Well, I've been a choral singer most of my life and have been capable of baritone solos for some decades. I've done some recordings. Just heard the dress rehearsal for Messiah last night (I have laryngitis, so couldn't participate). Maybe I'll be able to do some of the performances . . .
Yep. Speaker with a depressed midrange will sound that way played louder too, but that can be quite pleasant on a lot of material. But it doesn't prevent them from sounding great at low levels.
Walking away from a live performance is not the same as turning the volume down.
You'd better look at those equal loudness curves again. Sensitivity in the bass drops quite a bit as the level goes down.
When you get around to measuring the behavior of speakers at low levels I'll give your theories more credence. Perception of the distance of the sound source seems to be a controverted area with natural sounds and the sound image from a stereo system lacks many of the clues we can have with natural sounds.
Oh, I just looked on the Stereophile site and there is an interesting article by Keith Howard on voice coil heating and changes in impedance. He thinks it's likely to be a negligible factor in normal listening.
http://www.stereophile.com/reference/1106hot/
____________________________________________________________
"Nature loves to hide."
---Heraclitus of Ephesus (trans. Wheelwright)
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Follow Ups Full ThreadTopic - If your amplifier is clipping, have you left the realm of high fidelity? - AJinFLA 16:11:48 10/31/06 (214)
- I guess we're all in trouble -- every amp clips once in a while - Richard BassNut Greene 14:14:06 11/02/06 (82)
- Re: I guess we're all in trouble -- every amp clips once in a while - Don T 05:56:51 11/04/06 (3)
- "every amp clips once in a while"....Oh yeah? - Soundmind 06:29:58 11/04/06 (2)
- Oh yea! - Don T 06:56:33 11/04/06 (1)
- Re: Oh yea! - Soundmind 08:26:55 11/04/06 (0)
- Don't worry about it, we're not usually in the realm of high fidelity anyway - Soundmind 15:29:46 11/02/06 (77)
- Relative to your theories... - soulfood 16:31:15 11/02/06 (76)
- Re: Relative to your theories... - Soundmind 17:02:29 11/02/06 (75)
- But do all halls behave the same? - Bob Rex 06:50:27 11/03/06 (1)
- Re: But do all halls behave the same? - Soundmind 09:08:54 11/03/06 (0)
- Re: Relative to your theories... - soulfood 19:14:09 11/02/06 (3)
- Re: Relative to your theories... - vettracer 19:44:31 11/02/06 (2)
- Re: Relative to your theories... - soulfood 09:25:53 11/03/06 (0)
- Re: Relative to your theories... - Soundmind 03:24:04 11/03/06 (0)
- The part that he completely missed - E-Stat 17:36:01 11/02/06 (68)
- Re: The part that he completely missed - Soundmind 03:34:07 11/03/06 (59)
- I was discussing the result of Amar's research, the Bose 901 - E-Stat 06:23:29 11/03/06 (58)
- I wasn't. You brought it up because you are a troll - Soundmind 08:43:48 11/03/06 (57)
- Congratulations! - E-Stat 09:17:42 11/03/06 (56)
- Re: Congratulations! - Soundmind 09:25:36 11/03/06 (55)
- SM, I am an engineer - E-Stat 09:56:08 11/03/06 (54)
- Wow, you really had me fooled, I never would have guessed. - Soundmind 10:19:34 11/03/06 (53)
- Similar, but - E-Stat 10:46:06 11/03/06 (52)
- Did you have to take regular engineering courses like Calculus, Differential equations, physics? - AJinFLA 13:29:44 11/03/06 (49)
- "Ha-Ha!!! Ho-Ho!!!! Hee-Hee!!!!!" - Todd Krieger 22:22:42 11/03/06 (22)
- Crocodile Tears - Dan Banquer 06:28:40 11/04/06 (0)
- I'm not an engineer.. - AJinFLA 05:09:36 11/04/06 (1)
- Are You Always Thinking About Me AJ? - thetubeguy1954 09:43:25 11/06/06 (0)
- Are you an electrical engineer? If not, maybe I shouldn't be talking to you - Soundmind 04:10:01 11/04/06 (7)
- Re: "Are you an electrical engineer? If not, maybe I shouldn't be talking to you" - Todd Krieger 20:07:28 11/04/06 (6)
- Re: "Are you an electrical engineer? If not, maybe I shouldn't be talking to you" - Soundmind 06:02:32 11/05/06 (5)
- Re: "Are you an electrical engineer? If not, maybe I shouldn't be talking to you" - Todd Krieger 10:44:05 11/05/06 (4)
- Re: "Are you an electrical engineer? If not, maybe I shouldn't be talking to you" - Soundmind 14:23:57 11/05/06 (3)
- Re: "Are you an electrical engineer? If not, maybe I shouldn't be talking to you" - Todd Krieger 00:46:15 11/06/06 (2)
- Re: "Are you an electrical engineer? If not, maybe I shouldn't be talking to you" - Soundmind 06:12:55 11/06/06 (1)
- Software design is ALL about problem solving - E-Stat 08:44:37 11/06/06 (0)
- Re: "Ha-Ha!!! Ho-Ho!!!! Hee-Hee!!!!!" - john curl 01:57:18 11/04/06 (10)
- Engineering Courses Versus Public Forums..... - Todd Krieger 19:35:50 11/04/06 (8)
- Re: Engineering Courses Versus Public Forums..... - john curl 00:49:26 11/05/06 (7)
- Re: Engineering Courses Versus Public Forums..... - Todd Krieger 02:17:19 11/05/06 (6)
- Re: Engineering Courses Versus Public Forums..... - john curl 12:03:00 11/05/06 (0)
- Re: Engineering Courses Versus Public Forums..... - Soundmind 06:08:49 11/05/06 (4)
- Re: Engineering Courses Versus Public Forums..... - Todd Krieger 10:52:37 11/05/06 (0)
- Sure it is - E-Stat 10:47:19 11/05/06 (2)
- Re: Sure it is - Soundmind 14:32:18 11/05/06 (1)
- Actually - E-Stat 09:34:21 11/06/06 (0)
- Re: "Ha-Ha!!! Ho-Ho!!!! Hee-Hee!!!!!" - john curl 12:01:07 11/04/06 (0)
- What floats your boat - E-Stat 14:17:18 11/03/06 (4)
- Ah - AJinFLA 15:37:39 11/03/06 (3)
- Re: Did you have to take regular engineering courses like Calculus, Differential equations, physics? - Soundmind 14:08:08 11/03/06 (8)
- Re: Curl's position - Mahatma Kane Jeeves 09:58:26 11/05/06 (5)
- Re: Curl's position - Soundmind 10:25:28 11/05/06 (4)
- Re: Curl's position - john curl 15:32:36 11/05/06 (3)
- Re: Curl's position - Soundmind 19:38:14 11/05/06 (2)
- Re: Curl's position - john curl 22:51:35 11/05/06 (1)
- Re: Curl's position - Soundmind 06:16:44 11/06/06 (0)
- Maybe he drives a train in his spare time (nt) - AJinFLA 14:13:38 11/03/06 (1)
- Or visa versa... maybe he sells software in his spare time and driving trains is his day job (nt) - Soundmind 14:37:57 11/03/06 (0)
- Re: Did you have to take regular engineering courses like Calculus, Differential equations, physics? - kerr 13:36:14 11/03/06 (11)
- Re: Did you have to take regular engineering courses like Calculus, Differential equations, physics? - AJinFLA 14:12:10 11/03/06 (10)
- Re: Did you have to take regular engineering courses like Calculus, Differential equations, physics? - kerr 16:53:51 11/03/06 (8)
- Re: Did you have to take regular engineering courses like Calculus, Differential equations, physics? - AJinFLA 20:17:04 11/03/06 (7)
- Re: Did you have to take regular engineering courses like Calculus, Differential equations, physics? - kerr 09:05:09 11/04/06 (6)
- Glenmorangie (nt) - AJinFLA 16:29:11 11/06/06 (1)
- That's a good choice - kerr 04:39:35 11/07/06 (0)
- Scotch? - thetubeguy1954 12:47:18 11/06/06 (3)
- Re: Scotch? - kerr 12:58:10 11/06/06 (2)
- Bourbon! - thetubeguy1954 08:12:37 11/07/06 (1)
- We just have to be careful... - kerr 09:18:33 11/07/06 (0)
- Or kindergarten (nt) - AJinFLA 14:35:09 11/03/06 (0)
- Re: Similar, but - Soundmind 11:12:31 11/03/06 (1)
- As the link I provided mentions - E-Stat 11:40:56 11/03/06 (0)
- Re: The part that he completely missed - tomservo 17:44:57 11/02/06 (7)
- Re: The part that he completely missed - Soundmind 03:36:41 11/03/06 (5)
- Re: The part that he completely missed - kerr 08:25:53 11/03/06 (4)
- Re: The part that he completely missed - thetubeguy1954 09:24:21 11/03/06 (3)
- Off-topic... - kerr 10:00:59 11/03/06 (2)
- Re: Off-topic... - thetubeguy1954 13:31:36 11/03/06 (1)
- Re: Off-topic... - kerr 13:43:00 11/03/06 (0)
- I have been to The Mountain - E-Stat 19:03:36 11/02/06 (0)
- I believe it is the case.. - Ugly 10:46:39 11/02/06 (6)
- This Could Be Caused By "Expectation Biases" No? - thetubeguy1954 11:16:43 11/02/06 (5)
- Re: This Could Be Caused By "Expectation Biases" No? - Ugly 15:18:56 11/02/06 (4)
- Re: This Could Be Caused By "Expectation Biases" No? - thetubeguy1954 09:06:39 11/03/06 (3)
- Re: This Could Be Caused By "Expectation Biases" No? - Ugly 11:42:07 11/03/06 (2)
- Re: This Could Be Caused By "Expectation Biases" No? - john curl 12:11:22 11/03/06 (1)
- So the cops don't like distortion caused by clipping either....hmmm. - Ugly 16:27:03 11/03/06 (0)
- YES,,,,, But - tomservo 08:55:46 11/02/06 (1)
- Re: YES,,,,, But - AJinFLA 13:50:59 11/03/06 (0)
- I think there are couple more variables here - E-Stat 14:50:55 11/01/06 (2)
- Re: I think there are couple more variables here - Steve Eddy 15:30:44 11/01/06 (1)
- Only with my second example - E-Stat 16:00:45 11/01/06 (0)
- Re: If your amplifier is clipping, have you left the realm of high fidelity? - Dan Banquer 12:39:40 11/01/06 (92)
- Re: If your amplifier is clipping, have you left the realm of high fidelity? - Soundmind 08:36:36 11/02/06 (0)
- Just to clarify... - andy_c 18:19:01 11/01/06 (68)
- Re: Just to clarify... - Dan Banquer 05:39:21 11/02/06 (67)
- Amen. Distortion figures, too. - markrohr 09:40:21 11/02/06 (6)
- Re: Amen. Distortion figures, too. - Pat D 12:37:37 11/02/06 (5)
- Re: Amen. Distortion figures, too. - Dan Banquer 16:40:24 11/02/06 (3)
- Re: Amen. Distortion figures, too. - Soundmind 04:23:21 11/03/06 (2)
- Re: Amen. Distortion figures, too. - Dan Banquer 04:36:07 11/03/06 (1)
- Re: Amen. Distortion figures, too. - Soundmind 05:53:37 11/03/06 (0)
- Yup. Wish Stereophile would follow suit. - markrohr 13:28:07 11/02/06 (0)
- Re: Just to clarify... - morricab 09:16:17 11/02/06 (59)
- Hummmmmmmmmmmmm. - Dan Banquer 09:42:04 11/02/06 (58)
- Re: Hummmmmmmmmmmmm. - morricab 01:14:50 11/03/06 (57)
- Re: Hummmmmmmmmmmmm. - Dan Banquer 05:27:55 11/03/06 (56)
- Re: Hummmmmmmmmmmmm. - morricab 07:16:55 11/03/06 (55)
- Here's an amplifier you'd die to own...if it had somebody elses name on it - Soundmind 14:49:40 11/03/06 (49)
- It's your lucky day, SM! - E-Stat 18:06:40 11/05/06 (0)
- Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz - E-Stat 14:07:31 11/05/06 (0)
- Re: Here's an amplifier you'd die to own...if it had somebody elses name on it - morricab 01:26:57 11/04/06 (46)
- Re: Here's an amplifier you'd die to own...if it had somebody elses name on it - Pat D 07:31:39 11/04/06 (40)
- Buy a speaker that does not have a roller coaster curve like the arbitrary test load - E-Stat 06:08:33 11/06/06 (33)
- But many, many speakers have a roller coaster impedance vs. frequency curve. - Pat D 07:19:38 11/07/06 (32)
- Well, I've always chosen the speaker first - E-Stat 11:21:34 11/07/06 (31)
- Re: Well, I've always chosen the speaker first - Pat D 20:27:06 11/07/06 (30)
- I'm just not sure about one thing - E-Stat 12:26:10 11/08/06 (29)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 17:55:17 11/08/06 (28)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 02:07:36 11/09/06 (23)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 07:23:35 11/09/06 (22)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 08:32:16 11/09/06 (21)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 15:46:49 11/09/06 (20)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 03:33:42 11/10/06 (19)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 05:12:54 11/10/06 (18)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 06:53:50 11/10/06 (17)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 08:53:38 11/10/06 (16)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 13:59:48 11/13/06 (15)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 22:58:54 11/17/06 (14)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 08:50:46 11/20/06 (13)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 11:12:10 11/21/06 (12)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 02:29:01 11/22/06 (11)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 05:54:22 11/23/06 (10)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 09:43:31 11/23/06 (9)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 14:21:56 11/23/06 (8)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 16:36:58 11/23/06 (7)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 11:13:37 11/25/06 (6)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 18:22:50 11/25/06 (5)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 18:15:15 11/27/06 (4)
- Other sources of information - morricab 09:05:17 11/29/06 (0)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 07:32:33 11/29/06 (2)
- Do you listen that loud? - Pat D 13:57:44 11/29/06 (1)
- Re: Do you listen that loud? - morricab 09:11:29 11/30/06 (0)
- Misstatements? - E-Stat 18:49:56 11/08/06 (3)
- Re: Misstatements? - Pat D 15:16:06 11/09/06 (2)
- Feel free to interpret the data as you please - E-Stat 15:41:20 11/09/06 (1)
- Why don't you use the more accurate NRC data? - Pat D 22:27:51 11/09/06 (0)
- Re: Here's an amplifier you'd die to own...if it had somebody elses name on it - morricab 02:07:08 11/06/06 (3)
- Re: Here's an amplifier you'd die to own...if it had somebody elses name on it - Pat D 04:57:15 11/06/06 (2)
- Re: Here's an amplifier you'd die to own...if it had somebody elses name on it - morricab 06:31:15 11/06/06 (1)
- Re: Here's an amplifier you'd die to own...if it had somebody elses name on it - Pat D 22:02:37 11/06/06 (0)
- This is not an amplifier you'd want to use with the 4 ohm 12" AR based speaker system - Soundmind 08:39:25 11/04/06 (1)
- Re: This is not an amplifier you'd want to use with the 4 ohm 12" AR based speaker system - Pat D 08:04:43 11/05/06 (0)
- Morricab, like other subjectivists, you are an ignorant fool - Soundmind 06:08:00 11/04/06 (4)
- Re: Morricab, like other subjectivists, you are an ignorant fool - morricab 01:57:59 11/06/06 (1)
- Re: Morricab, like other subjectivists, you are an ignorant fool - john curl 10:43:20 11/06/06 (0)
- Re: Morricab, like other subjectivists, you are an ignorant fool - Dan Banquer 13:20:14 11/04/06 (1)
- Re: Morricab, like other subjectivists, you are an ignorant fool - morricab 01:27:40 11/06/06 (0)
- Re: Hummmmmmmmmmmmm. - Dan Banquer 07:53:24 11/03/06 (3)
- Don't forget to mention the Cheever thesis in your article - andy_c 20:29:19 11/03/06 (0)
- Re: Hummmmmmmmmmmmm. - morricab 08:08:01 11/03/06 (1)
- As I expected: When it comes to putting your money where your mouth is... nt - Dan Banquer 09:38:02 11/03/06 (0)
- Re: As I expected: When it comes to putting your money where your mouth is... nt - morricab 01:28:22 11/04/06 (0)
- I sure as hell don't - E-Stat 18:06:44 11/01/06 (10)
- Re: I sure as hell don't - Soundmind 18:23:27 11/01/06 (9)
- Re: I sure as hell don't - john curl 22:44:46 11/01/06 (8)
- I'm gonna have to disagree John - E-Stat 07:12:27 11/02/06 (3)
- Re: I'm gonna have to disagree John - john curl 09:47:37 11/02/06 (2)
- Hey John, speaking of protecting your hearing... - mkuller 19:01:01 11/02/06 (0)
- AR-3s driven by a MKIII? - E-Stat 17:05:38 11/02/06 (0)
- Do the math - Soundmind 06:05:42 11/02/06 (0)
- Re: I sure as hell don't - Soundmind 05:00:56 11/02/06 (2)
- Re: I sure as hell don't - john curl 10:00:20 11/02/06 (1)
- There's an answer for every problem...well the simple ones anyway - Soundmind 10:58:34 11/02/06 (0)
- P.S. - Dan Banquer 13:02:44 11/01/06 (10)
- Re: P.S. - Soundmind 13:30:27 11/01/06 (9)
- Re: P.S. - Todd Krieger 00:02:33 11/02/06 (2)
- And then there's that Symphony of a Thousand... nt - clarkjohnsen 08:28:51 11/02/06 (0)
- I knew there was a good reason why - E-Stat 07:03:17 11/02/06 (0)
- Re: P.S. - thetubeguy1954 14:22:45 11/01/06 (5)
- This was a fun demo - andy_c 11:33:12 11/01/06 (0)
- Saw and interesting demo... - morricab 11:09:57 11/01/06 (8)
- Re: Saw and interesting demo... - Soundmind 11:53:36 11/01/06 (7)
- Re: Saw and interesting demo... - morricab 02:39:02 11/02/06 (6)
- If your amplifier is clipping, you have left the realm of High Fidelity. - Dan Banquer 06:01:40 11/02/06 (5)
- Re: If your amplifier is clipping, you have left the realm of High Fidelity. - morricab 09:12:08 11/02/06 (4)
- Re: If your amplifier is clipping, you have left the realm of High Fidelity. - Dan Banquer 09:36:06 11/02/06 (3)
- Re: If your amplifier is clipping, you have left the realm of High Fidelity. - morricab 01:40:38 11/03/06 (2)
- Re: If your amplifier is clipping, you have left the realm of High Fidelity. - Dan Banquer 04:39:46 11/03/06 (1)
- Re: If your amplifier is clipping, you have left the realm of High Fidelity. - morricab 07:22:02 11/03/06 (0)
- 100% correct - Soundmind 09:06:28 11/01/06 (9)
- Caught! (I'm so ashamed) - Dave Pogue 11:32:12 11/01/06 (8)
- You need to read the spec sheet to know what you're hearing, Dave. nt - markrohr 04:09:31 11/02/06 (7)
- For some people who have sustained significant hearing loss, that's as close as they will come nt - Soundmind 04:46:02 11/02/06 (6)
- The topic of Dave's post was clipping and distortion in flea-powered amps, not hearing loss. nt - markrohr 09:43:55 11/02/06 (5)
- Re: The topic of Dave's post was clipping and distortion in flea-powered amps, not hearing loss. nt - thetubeguy1954 13:37:54 11/02/06 (1)
- And the topic of mine was that for some people, it could hardly matter less what comes out - Soundmind 12:10:49 11/02/06 (3)
- The same could be said for your engineering knowledge - morricab 03:18:09 11/07/06 (0)
- Re: And the topic of mine was that for some people, it could hardly matter less what comes out - Dave Pogue 16:53:37 11/02/06 (0)
- Perhaps you should just respond to your own posts, then. nt - markrohr 13:29:36 11/02/06 (0)
- Re: If your amplifier is clipping, have you left the realm of high fidelity? - thetubeguy1954 08:33:43 11/01/06 (4)
- Do you use my posts when you shave? - AJinFLA 17:06:30 11/01/06 (2)
- No I'd Just Like You To Intelligently Response To My Questions. - thetubeguy1954 09:53:01 11/02/06 (1)
- Never feed that bad-mouthed stroll. - cheap-Jack 08:53:05 11/03/06 (0)
- Re: If your amplifier is clipping, have you left the realm of high fidelity? - john curl 11:26:19 11/01/06 (0)
- Clipping as an audible artifact is not Hi-FI. (nt) - soulfood 07:40:22 11/01/06 (0)
Follow Ups
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - Pat D 18:15:15 11/27/06 (4)
- Other sources of information - morricab 09:05:17 11/29/06 (0)
- Re: I'm just not sure about one thing - morricab 07:32:33 11/29/06 (2)
- Do you listen that loud? - Pat D 13:57:44 11/29/06 (1)
- Re: Do you listen that loud? - morricab 09:11:29 11/30/06 (0)