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Who sells the best mirrored protractor? Turntable Lab has one for around $14.
Experiences?
"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"
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I have a "Mint" custom made for my turntable and arm.......very pleased
beam to aim the line on the mirror to the tonearm pivot. I was hoping to use the glass surface for azimuth setting, but I have always found it very difficult to see the low lying cantilever reflection on the glass.
I also use the Geo-Disc with the laser beam to aim at the tonearm pivot.
sisterray, as you may know, many different style devices are available for cartridge alignment. But regardless of the method I think it comes down to the precision of construction.
When you consider the size of the stylus tip you can appreciate how important precision can be when you're trying to replicate the position of the original cutter stylus.
Regarding beach cruiser's reference to the DB, I had one several years ago. But on close inspection I discovered the printed screening on the clear plastic was not registered with the spindle hole in the overlay. I got rid of that one.
Years ago I used various 2-point protractors. Then after reading positive reviews I bought a metal Dennesen Soundtracktor. That is a single point positional device based on the Baerwald math of the 2-point devices. It adjusts for the specific length of a given arm so quite adaptable. Later versions offered by Wally and Feikert, and possibly others, may provide some improvements and alternative alignments, but I've found the Dennesen to be adequate for my needs. That has provided sonic improvements when correcting alignments done with other protractors in my own and friend's systems. The caveat is the pivot point for the arm must be absolutely identified from the top side of the arm since that serves as the precision starting point. Without that other alignment devices will likely be better.
A plastic version of the Dennesen was also offered, but I don't know if that provides the same precision as the metal one?
So my basic point is to be very careful with the precision of any device utilized for alignment.
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing, if you can fake that you've got it made." Groucho
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N/T
I have often read that wallytracker has satisfied customers, but I never could quite figure what functional advantages it might offer for me. my understanding is that one aligns the cartridge at two null points, aided by a grid to align the cart .
I never quite understood what the wallytracker did differently , besides being cranked out by one guy, now deceased, with a machine shop, I would enjoy the most accurate tool possible and was hoping you might fill me in on the details of the advantages.
thank you
Unlike my $15 mirrored protractor, the Mint and Wally use the mirror to help you make sure you are looking at the cantilever from the correct angle. They let you visually confirm you have the cantilever straight, the stylus in the right spot at 2 null positions, and have the overhang right at every spot on the record. With all the advanced styluses out there these days, precision makes a difference you can hear.First, you start by getting the overhang correct all along the arc etched (Wally) or printed (Mint) on the protractor. My cheap protractor just checks overhang at a single point. It can be spot on at one point, and way off at others.
Then comes the best, and hardest part.
At two null points, these tractors have two guide lines on the top layer of the glass. These lines are parallel to the cantilever on either side of it. They are reflected off the mirror surface on the bottom layer. If you are looking at it perfectly head on, these lines and their reflections appear as a straight line. You have to adjust your gaze until they do. See pictures above.
Then, you have to center the cantilever between the guide lines, so that it is parallel to both. If you are off a little bit, it will look crooked. You have to keep adjusting until it is not.
Then you have to get it equally correct at a 2nd null point.
Once you get the cantilever right for both null points, with the stylus hitting the overhang arc all across the record, you can visually confirm you have the alignment right. Otherwise, it feels to me like I'm guessing.
It takes some time and causes some eye strain. On a good day I can do it in 20 minutes. On a bad day, its more than an hour. But when I'm done, I can be sure I got it right. That's what makes these the best I've used, so far.
The Wally is better because its lines are etched and permanent. You can feel the etched line with the stylus, which makes it easier to use. The Mint comes with warnings that if you get it wet, you'll smear the lines and ruin it. In 2018 I paid $131 for my Mint, made specifically for my VPI. I think the Wally is close to $400. The Wally I had for my previous Rega arm let me choose between Stevenson and Baerwald alignments....the Mint does not.
Edits: 02/18/25
It's basically (a very expensive) all in one combo product of an arc protractor with null points. $5 change from USD400 makes for one very expensive arc protractor!
The difference is that they have made different arcs on the one disc according to the pivot/spindle distance for your particular deck.
You could save massive amounts of money by doing what I suggested earlier which is for the OP to create his own arc protractor (taking care to get a tight tolerance fit of the spindle hole and ensure the axes are properly scaled) then use one of the many cheap mirrored 2 point protractors to refine the result. Of course, the same requirement of a tight tolerance fit for the spindle hole applies.
Having two independent tools will potentially give a more accurate result by reducing the systematic error inherent in the one tool. If there is any slop in the spindle hole then all bets are off for accuracy.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
thanks for the help.
that info is pretty much what I assumed from looking at the available pictures . call me cheap, but I figure if the null points are correct, the arc will be ok, since I am using known correct arm mounting dimensions with stock Michell parts.
I was using a DB alignment tool for a long time, which also checks for overhang, but always had some lingering doubts about the tool, since it was a new product when I ordered one , and it shipped to me without a spindle hole, which was quickly corrected . But that really didn't inspire confidence that Db was as concerned about the tool accuracy as myself.
in use it seemed to work well , the spindle hole had no slack, but the soft plastic construction has been overcome by diamond needle tips over time, , and the target dots now have little holes off the exact center where it needs to be. So I bought a hard plastic mirrored replacement and will see if the mirror is a big improvement. I like the idea of different multiple gauges , so I can double check for accuracy.
I thought the mention of the importance of spindle fit very helpful, along with the way to effect a remedy. whenever I kick around you tube, I am impressed at the lack of knowledge shown because they didn't grow up around record players, like I did.
You're welcome - I'm glad that I was able to offer something to you that was useful!To be perfectly honest, no off-the-shelf jig/protractor is going to be perfect unless it is custom made for your turntable spindle.
I have bought and measured up lots of different jigs over the years and found them all wanting in terms of absolute accuracy. Everything is made to a tolerance and you can't get perfection unless you make it yourself. I even had a Feikert which couldn't be assembled because the trammel mounting block cutout was so undersized that the trammel wouldn't fit! The spindle holes were also so oversized you might as well not bother using it which is when I hit on the paper shim idea. Feikert sent me a replacement, but again the alignment plate had oversized spindle holes. So I took the bits that were within tolerance, and laser cut my own linear offset jig which could use the trammel and mounting block.
Here's the irony...the cheap Feikert clones you find on eBay are actually better made! I bought one and was very impressed with the quality. I prefer linear offset jigs because the uncertainty in overhang and offset is eliminated as long as the arm design is suitable - you need an arm where the pivot position is clearly defined and doesn't move. They also won't work with sliding base arms like the SME. The Feikert is good in the sense that they give a starting point for setting overhang, but you rely on the two null points to refine the answer so that design could be used with most arms.
Given my experience with laser cutting, I wouldn't trust the Wallytractor to be any better to be honest. I use the laser cutters at my work place to make my own jigs and found that the only way to get real accuracy is to undersize the holes and gradually ream them out to fit my spindle snuggly. The laser cutters (which Wally Tools use) don't always make perfect circles because the bed is not always perfectly normal to the laser, the acrylic isn't perfectly flat and the bed can be slighly warped. The most common result is a slightly elliptical hole.
I understand what you mean about the effect of tip damage to the jigs - such damage causes errors because the stylus can be forced into the spot and appear to be on target when in fact the suspension hasn't fully relaxed into correct position or is "pulled" further down as the stylus sinks in the depression as you slide the cartridge into position.Here's another tip you may find helpful - put a bit of sticky tape over the target points. As you sweep the stylus over the target, a fine tip like a Microline etches a track and repeated drops in the same spot will eventually tear a hole in the tape which again causes errors. However, you can easily replace it and the etchings remain undamaged underneath - I always put a fresh bit of tape every time I want to align a new cartridge.
In your case, you can use the tape to create a new smooth surface on your favourite protractors for you to work off so that your old tools are still fine!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Edits: 01/30/25 01/30/25
I am glad that clever people put some thought into common issues and post solutions here. The idea about using tape is something I will instantly adopt, thank you.
precision tools need to be kept that way, although I don't have any illusions about ultimate precision with the mirrored tool I just bought , having considered some of the points you mentioned that can only be overcome by making one's own tools, and I am buying mine.
I figured it's kind of left to chance how the tool will preform, so much depends on quality control , which costs money , which could be considered a market disadvantage, one never knows what the tolerable specs are in the manufacturing. one can only hope the person setting up the machine is having a very good day.
I was once impressed, long ago, by the honesty Grado used In selling cartridges, saying they were all mass produced in a batch, and those that passed spec were given a price , those that passed spec even better were given another price, and those carts which were excellent were given the highest price.
perhaps not the best customer phycology sales wise, few want the third choice. They don't do that anymore.
It might be to my advantage to get another tool, made with a different approach and manufacturing tools, just to get a second opinion , so to speak. In my case , that would be a third tool, because the only real problem with the DB tool , besides my lack of confidence, was a torn up target center, which I can smooth out and tape over. I was planning on using it to double check overhang anyway. and the mirrored one I just bought was not expensive enough to create financial concerns.
What do you mean by "best" and what features do you want?
A simple 2 point protractor will be all you need but will take you longer to get there. A cheap option will be to print out a Conrad Hoffman arc protractor and then use the 2 point to verify your result.
The essential requirement is that the spindle hole is an EXACT tolerance fit to your spindle and that the etchings are exact if you want "the best" of that type of protractor.
In practice, most of the spindle holes on these products (especially the cheap ones) will be slightly oversized so that they will fit on everyone's turntable spindle and this contributes to an overall error. As long as the etchings are accurate, you can easily fix the spindle tolerance by wrapping a thin paper shim that you can get from junk mail (the thinnest I routinely get is 0.04mm). Just cut a 20mm length of whatever you need (it doesn't need to go all the way around the spindle) and you can get a snug fit. You will need to do that sort of thing even with more expensive devices like the Feikert.
You can pay anywhere from your $14 one up to $395 for the Wallytractor!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
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