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In Reply to: RE: This is very interesting. posted by Ric Schultz on August 12, 2022 at 12:19:24
Hope you are still looking in here.
If not where should one make posts?
I am going to install a dedicated grounding post for the inverter but cannot see the point of a two hundred dollars filter when the grounding point will not be shared with anything.
One would assume the ground to fairly quiet.
I could understand this if the rod was shared by other circuits.
What are your, or anyone else's, thoughts on this?
The inverter seems to get better with use. I find it seems to sound best with the battery meter reading 11.9 to 12.1 volts.
Follow Ups:
I think the ground post on the inverter is just for protection.....so would not make sense to ground it to its own ground rod. My friend with the Giandel has a separate ground rod for his entire stereo.....and the entire stereo has nothing to do with the house ground.....the wire from ground rod goes to the Puritan ground filter and at that point everything is grounded to it.I just spoke to him.....The wiring on the Giandel (as shown on my site) is not what he is currently using. Right now he has no ground connection to the chassis. He is going to put the wire back on and see if it changes the sound. Also, the "ground wire" coming out of the Giandel terminal strip is not needed as there is nothing connected to that terminal inside the Giandel.
His sound is so incredible for 3 reasons..
1. Super inverter power
2. Puritan filter which filters noise made by the inverter and also separates and filters noise in each component....so no noise interaction of components
3. Separate ground rod and ground filter for the stereo.....this grounds optimally and gets rid of noise on the ground line.There is no reason you cannot use a Puritan (or two) to power your entire system.....It handles tons of current. No limitation using his big JC-1+ amps. if you need more outlets then you can wire some dublexes into the Puritan....however, those outlets would share filtering and not be quite as good.
I you go to what's best forum and search "oeno"...(my friends name there)....you will see posts of him talking about the inverter system, etc.
You want to make sure you have disconnected the charger cable from the batteries when you listen.......even if the charger is off and unplugged it will still mess up the sound if its wires are connected to the batteries....My friend disconnects using the Anderson connector that comes with the charger.
Edits: 08/16/22 08/16/22 08/16/22 08/16/22 08/16/22
how is the house wiring involved with the system in any shape or form?
And if that ground post is not needed and one lets the whole system float it would seem no grounding rod is needed. How is his system connected to the house at all even with the ground rod connections disconnected?
I guess I am confused by the need to ground the chassis to earth.
I am glad to see mentioned what his power draw is.
I am sure the PURITAN AC filter is good but I do not use plugs - I hardwire to copper connector blocks - over an above the cost of the filter I would have to buy a bunch of AC plus and do not care how carefully they are made and how expensive the materials used - a screwed down connection is superior to a press-fit. I will build some AC filters and place them at the amp inputs. Each device having their own filter. Most likely the Fo-Felix filter the next time a group buy is announced.
Take care, Ric
When you use an inverter for your whole stereo system.....you are not dealing with the "house wiring" whatsoever. However, it sounds best to have all your products "grounded to the earth".....and then filter the noise on the ground wires. As mentioned his wire from his grounding rod goes to the Puritan ground filter that is also attached to the Puritan line filter.....this is where all his grounds from his equipment go and OPTIONALLY you can also attach the chassis ground on the inverter.....In this senario the chassis ground on the inverter is optional.....it is just a safety ground.....you know, in case the 120V would somehow leak to the chassis and then if you touched it you would get a shock....so, if the chassis is grounded then if 120V AC were to touch the chassis then it would short big time and all fuses would blow.....protecting you from harm.
However, if you are using plugs into the inverter (and it sounds like you are not) AND the plugs are grounded to the ground post (yet to be tested)....and you DO NOT want to use a Puritan filter or Puritan ground filter.....then using the ground post on the inverter can be used for the main ground connection point..... and that is where you would run a wire from your separate ground rod.......In any case....you're stereo is completely isolated from the house ground and the house wiring.
The Puritan filter does not have to have connectors in or out. You can simply hardwire into the Puritan....very easy....anything can be done. You could hardwire directly from the inverter into the Puritan and hardwire power cords from the Puritan directly to your gear. Lots of possibilities. It really is very simple.
but it needs checking periodically to see if there is a problem with oxidation, or needs to be prepped with a deoxit solution or dielectric grease. Even then it should be rechecked. High humidity destroys. Soldering it is the only way to ensure, but you better have a way to quickly unplug everything in case of a lightning storm. I don't trust the breaker box on/off for that.
Either one would need periodic attention.
Soldering large gauge wires is not a sure thing, either.
Nothing is a sure thing, is it? Keeps us on our toes!
I've checked mine after 15 years and all is just fine, no solder degradation, no oxidized contacts, nothing. So saying this is unnecessary. If the tension within the outlet contacts has been compromised in any way I would have just replaced it. I know enough to DIY.
BTW, if anyone is reading this make sure you turn off breakers on the box before you touch anything
I was thinking of 8 and 10 gauge Mil spec stranded wire.
All less than that is another story and I would not think of doing anything other than soldering.
I should have been more specific.
I have never spent much time there so I have no idea how to navigate.
When I search for your friend I get a bunh of posts about a field coil driver - only one page.
Can you give us more to go on to see what he is up to?
he starts posting here about the Inverter system.....his system details are there too
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/rada-precious-one-phono.34842/page-3
I would never leave the charger connected when listening to music.
I am confused about his use of the ground post on the inverter.
If one has the whole system plugged into the inverter than all of the grounds (that are used) are going to the inverter and one would assume the inverter's ground post is the place they would converge.
I cannot bring myself to buy the PURITAN power strip. Maybe in time.
My amplifiers do not have a chassis ground since they do not possess metal chassis so I have no ground wire attached to the "heavy appliance outlet".
I have my power strip plugged into one of the receptacles along with, temporarily, one of the Rythmik woofers. I assume the ground connection there is tied to the inverter's ground post?
Thanks for the notice of where your friend has poisted more information about this.
I am enjoying music more but I worry it is the new as much as anything else. It will take a couple of weeks to know if there is something insidious going on - not that I suspect it.
Thanks, Ric
Worry and Insidious? HMMMMMM. I trust the universe....it is beautiful....and so are you, my friend.I finally got my whole system on my Goal Zero 400 inverter. The inverter is so small that it will turn off when I turn on my class D amp because it cannot handle the turn on surge of its 1200 watt power supply.......so I put a switch on the amp that allows me to switch between wall power and the inverter power. I turn the amp on with wall power....let it warm up....and when ready to play then swtich it to the inverter.....works perfectly.....the sound...........OMG......every instrument now in its own space....less zippy, more real sound...more depth. I do my listening tests using Chesky CD recorded in real space, using acoustic instruments, using two mics.....real easy to tell differences, that way. I realize that my Goal Zero inverter is way, way, way behind a Giandel.....but for now, this is all I can afford. I am going to go to my friends house in a week or so and listen to his super Apogee mit inverter system. I heard it when he first got the Apogees.....but he has completely transformed it since then.....and when I heard it.....it was spectacular. Fun ahead.
Edits: 08/17/22
As I described, the terminal strip has no ground connection. It is not clear whether the third pin on the AC outlets is grounded to that grounding post. He cannot get to his inverter very well, and he would have to turn it all off to check it with a continuity meter (he will test it...sometime)....Maybe you can be our "ground slueth". You can check for continuity between the ground post and the third pin on those sockets. They might all go to the chassis ground....in which case....then you could use the chassis post as your main ground post. He is doing something quite different. He is using the point on the Puritan Ground filter as his main ground point.....and this is where his wire comes from his grounding rod. He only uses one socket on the Inverter because he needs more than the 6 on the Puritan.....and maybe that is why he thought it might have sounded better without a ground wire on the Giandel.....if his component that he plugs into the Giandel regular socket already has a ground wire going to the main grounding point then plugging it into the Giandel might create a ground loop if "INDEED" the sockets are grounded. I hope this all makes sense.I have put a pic of the insides of the Giandel 5000 watter on my site.....this thing is made really well......There are just two wires coming from the main board to the jack board.....so "true ground" is not used by the inverter. You can see the two black wires coming from the Jack board to the terminal strip.
Edits: 08/17/22
But I have to say - I get the feeling this thing is very quiet on its own.
Still too early to make pronouncements but I am very pleased, so far.
I have made arrangements to have a ground rod installed but now i am having second thoughts if that is actually needed?
when I bought my house I helped the electrician put in 2 two new grounding rods, 6 foot long copper rods pounded into the ground and then wired in. I wouldn't want to do that again, we were both exhausted.
I consulted here and other places and I was told it was the best thing to do and was also good for local codes.
Don't mess with local codes by leaving any out, that's a heap of trouble
It will be by an electrician that was recommended to me by Georgia Power for an earlier job.
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