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I have been experimenting/using a couple of Hammond 193 chokes. The results are good. I would also guess there is more room for improvement.
I am wondering about placing them closer to each component.
How about running wires out form the inside of a amp and preamp for connection to the chokes? Or include wires form the power cord connector for choke connection? The choke could set behind the components.
How important is vibration control on the chokes?
I also have a linear power supply for my squeezebox. Could I place the choke inside the power supply box? Would this improve the sound?
I do understand there are flux issues that may cause problems.
I am also wondering about the hot and neutral connection. I am using balanced power how does this work with the hot connection? How important is the direction of the choke?
Thanks. This is fun tweeking.
Follow Ups:
I currently have 8 193L chokes in my HT/Music system.
* Two in parallel plugged into a hotbox that feeds the three amps
* Two in parallel plugged into the same duplex as the preamp
* One directly wired/plugged into the DVD Player via a Neutrik Powercon
* One plugged into the same duplex as the Transport
* One plugged into the same duplex as the Sub
* One plugged into the same duplex as the 61" Samsung DLP TV
I have considered having an extra lead from a Powercord with a Neutrik Powercon. This would be done at the AC male end. This way I can decide where is the most benificial in the system. I can also Test if a 193M or 193L would yield better sonics. I have many custom power cords I can do this with, I just need to modify them.
So far I have not been able to get better performance with vibration control or manipulation with the chokes. A Shakti On-Line on top of the 193L does change the presentation a bit. The On-Line will lean the system a bit toward neutral, with dynamics and transients being slightly improved. These are the results I got with experimenting with two On-Lines on top of the chokes used with the preamp.
From my experience so far, the closer to the component or where the 193 is plugged into, the more pronounced the effect. Note though, with a 3' cord vs directly wired, the effect is minimal to none. Remember I do have 8 in my system, so with fewer chokes possibly direct wiring will yield a more pronounced effect.
I do not use balanced power, so sorry, cannot assist there. Alan will be able to help you regarding balanced power.
One last thing. With all 193 installations, allow the system to settle for "at least" 5 days before critical listening.
Hopefully this info helped.
Chris
This is what I was looking for. Sounds like you had the same thoughts as me.
It may turn out that the placement depends on where it is easier to physically locate the choke. Behide the component or by the duplex.
I only have two chokes now. Perhaps I will wait on more info in comparing the M to the L.
Currently I have one on the duplex that feeds my preamp and amp. The duplex is hook to the balanced power.
The second is hooked up in front of the balanced power and the isolation trasformer that feeds my power supply that feeds my squeezebox.
You are welcome. If I were in your shoes, I would purchase another 193M and 193L. Then try them with different components and locations. Set up the connections so they can be swapped (with a Neutrik Powercon for example), so you can compare the different size chokes for effectiveness in your system. These chokes really kick ass with video also.
By the way, for video, I have had "stunning" results with the following: 2+ 193L chokes on the same circuit close to the video gear and one of Alan Maher's PE units. IMHO, the performance of the combo out weighs the cost by a HUGE margin in my system.
Chris
It's only been one day and I love the effects of the 193L however I have it plugged into my hydra. Questions:
Is it better placed in the duplex into which the hydra pc is plugged or into the hydra itself as I have it now? I know Alan said to experiment but short of buying another one (which I will probably do eventually) what are some guidelines on placement?
I use an Equitech balanced power conditioner that feeds my amp, preamp and CDP. I also use a TG Audio BybeeSucker that's plugged into the Equitech, and this BybeeSucker conditioner is used to feed the CDP and preamp.
Here's what I've found so far with two 193Ms.
1) I don't care for what the choke does when plugged directly into the BybeeSucker. This is true when it's used on the outlet feeding either the CDP or preamp (these separate outlets are on separate circuits in the PC). To my ears, the choke seemed to "choke" dynamics and flatten the depth of the soundstage when used in this position. I don't know why this happens, and don't know if a Hydra is similar enough to a BybeeSucker to produce the same result.
2) I use three duplexes in the Equitech (two Oyaide SWO-GXs and one Acme) and these are daisy chained and not connected to anything else (e.g. surge protection or other duplexes). One Oyaide is used for the BybeeSucker (thus one outlet is available in this duplex) and the other Oyaide is for the amp (which uses both outlets as it's a dual mono design). The Acme outlet is unused. I've tried having one 193M plugged into the spare outlet in the wall duplex that feeds the equitech, and the other 193M plugged into the Acme (which should affect all outlets in the Equitech as they're daisy chained). I've also tried having both 193Ms plugged into the Equitech outlets (one in the spare outlet of the duplex used for the BybeeSucker, and one in the Acme). In my system, I get better restults having both chokes plugged into the Equitech vs. having one plugged into the wall outlet and one in the Equitech. Having them both in the Equitech results in a better soundstage presentation (and placement of sounds within that larger soundstage) and better dynamics vs. having one choke at the wall.
3) When using only one choke, I found I preferred it plugged into the Equitech output vs. having it plugged into the wall outlet that serves the Equitech for the same sonic reasons as described above.
I hope my experience/opinion helps.
An expert is someone who knows no more than you but is from out of town.
-Mark Twain
Larbo, thanks for sharing your experiences. I've got one 193M on the way. I also use balanced power. You mentioned that your best results were achieved by plugging the chokes into the equitech receptacles. In your system, how much better was plugging two into the equitech versus just one 193M...resolution floor, soundstage, imaging...any specific improvements?
Hey Rio,
In my system, adding the additional choke simply provided more of what the single choke did - greater dynamics, increased soundstage and 3-dimensionality within that stage. This likely comes in part from a lowered noise floor.
From the posts here, it seems that people typically use multiple chokes in their system. Seems once you get started it's hard to stop. In my case, I wasn't really intending to have multiples. I bought an extra choke as I was going to wire one up for my father. Since I had it here I tried the "multiple" route. I ended up keeping the second one for myself, and bought another for my father.... Similar thing with the 193M vs. 193L for me. The 193M is "bigger" than the 193L, sort of serving the purpose of 2 193Ls as I understand it. However, I bought the 193M only because it was in stock while there was a 6 - 8 week wait time for the 193L. So, in some senses using the "bigger" choke and using more than one of them is accidental in my case. But I'd set it up this way purposefully if I'd initially known what I know now (if that makes sense).
I hope this helps.
An expert is someone who knows no more than you but is from out of town.
-Mark Twain
I'm awaiting delivery of one 193M on order...sounds like "more of a good thing" reflects the sentiments of many here who have tried 2+. BTW I like your Twain quote...dealing with the out of town "consultants" at the present...sigh
I use 2 x 193Ms (with a third on the way) each parallel to a set of outlets.
One additional thing I have found is that the M's seem to need 2-3 weeks burn-in/settle time oppsoed to the 1 week of the 193L
Here is a recommendation from this forum
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/14/146316.html
I plug mine (2 193L) to the wall outlet. Once i purchase another PLC, i will plug it directly in PLC to see what happens.
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