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In a post below, I mentioned a few minor mods I did to a Powervar line conditioner. Another member (Chris), responded that he'd tried the same and got better system results using Hammond chokes.
I got the Powervar for use with my CDP to isolate it's digital nasties from the rest of the system. Can a filter choke do the same thing? From what I've read, I gathered that chokes were great for filtering out line noise while conditioners like the Powervar, etc, worked well for keeping noise created by digital components away from the rest of the system components.
Would it be best to use a combination of the two?
Follow Ups:
I ended up using the two Powervar units like this:
- One for the CD Transport, which is a Proceed CDD
- One for the mating DAC, which is a Proceed DAP
I have tried many different configurations. At the end, the system sounded better with the Powervars out of the system. As Al Sekela mentioned, the metal case with the Powervars do ring. Metal cover to metal chassis contact with the tranny slightly humming... So dampening the Powervar casing, tranny and AC outlet helps alot sonically. Gold wire for power gave the unit a nice warm rich tone, changing the crap hospital grade outlet helped, three large brass cones and the Myrtle wood helped, changing all the screws to non-magnetic helped a little, higher grade solder (I used Cardas Quad Eutectic) instead of the oversized lousy solder joints, ERS paper helped, a good power cord with a Furutech solderless IEC inlet helped, etc. I would assume you would try the Powervar unit with different gear. The 3.0 is a smaller unit then the 7.0 units I have. So try it with different front end gear.
What I was eluding to was if you are considering heavy moddifications (like I did) on the Powervar unit, that there are more effective AC filtering techniques available for the "money". One example was the Hammond 193L choke I mentioned. The modified Powervar units I have do not sound bad. What sounded better was removing it and having the duplex outlet that the Transport was plugged into filtered with a 193L choke.
To clarify the above. I currently (and did also use this Chang unit with the Powervars) use a Chang Lightspeed 6400. There are three duplex outlets in this Chang. The duplex outlets are being used as follows:
Duplex #1: Proceed AVP preamp and (2) 193L chokes
Duplex #2: Proceed CDD Transport and one 193L choke
Duplex #3: Modified Samsung DVD player and one 193L choke
The above mentioned configuration is sonically superior to having the modded Powervars anywhere in the system. I may try one of the Powervar units with the DLP monitor. Anyway, hopefully this helps...
Chris
The Hammond choke tweak uses a large-value choke, 5 or 10 henrys, in parallel with the AC line. The large inductance provides significant reactance at the power frequency so the device does not draw much AC current with 120 volts across it. These devices have significant low frequency winding resistance (57 ohms for the 193L and 63 ohms for the 193M), so they do not present a short-circuit to high frequency noise. They appear to work by damping high frequency resonances with the winding resistance, as the core behavior drops out above about 5 KHz.
Some line conditioners have series chokes as part of their passive filters. These chokes have much smaller inductance values, as you do not want any significant reactance at the power frequency. They do attenuate RF noise in both directions (hence the "bi-directional" comment on the Powervar website page) and can be useful where their residual series resistance does not degrade the performance of the components connected down-stream.
You might want to try a Hammond choke connected to your AC outlet, and the Powervar in series with the digital source. These devices do different things, so the combination might work better than either one alone. If you are going to modify your Powervar, think about using antiparallel rectifier diodes in series with the AC safety-earth ("ground") lead. This tweak reduces low-level noise without compromising the safety function.
All that said, however, you may find the Powervar introduces its own sonic character even though it reduces digital noise. The steel box may be undamped and ring acoustically, for example.
Do you want the short answer??? Yep.
Alan
Alan, I think I recall that you use balanced power (perhaps not?). If you do, do you plug all your equipment into the pc, source included? I recall reading this is what equi=tech recommends.
Not to hijack your question from Alan but being a LONG time balanced power user, I have found that the benefits of isolating digital gear from my balanced power unit(s) has just as much benefit as with unbalanced power.
Of course, this greatly depends on how the balanced power unit is constructed and if all the outlets are daisy chained after the balancing transformer, as is the case with all my units, then additional digital isolation is of benefit.
Cheers,
~kenster
Yes...I plug all my gear into balanced a/c....including the computer, filters, effects, chokes, etc.
Alan
As U have noted, your main concern should be isolating your CD player, or any digital device for that matter, from the rest of your system via an isolation transformer on the power line/cord feeding the CD player.
I am not at all familiar with your Powervar unit but if all the oulets on the Powervar are daisy chained after the transformer and all your components R plugged into those outlets, U R dumping digital noise back into all the components connected to the Powervar.
On the other hand, if all U have connected to the Powervar is the CD player, then the transformer should effectively stop the digital noise from infiltrating the other components.
Others will have to chime in about the Hammond choke.
Hope this helps,
~kenster
Sorry to steal this thread for a side question :)
Currently , i have only on PS audio UO which i connect both integrated amp and cdp to. Question is if it's better to use UPC-200 to separate out digital and analog? Or if i use two UO , will it work the same? Or it's useless if i don't have two dedicated line?
thanks.
"Currently , i have only on PS audio UO which i connect both integrated amp and cdp to. Question is if it's better to use UPC-200 to separate out digital and analog?"
The PS Audio UO should be used to isolate your CD player from the rest of your gear. With the way the UO is constructed, and the way U R using it, U R dumping digital noise into your Integrated amp.
The PS Audio UPC-200 is a different beast. It has essentially 2 UO's inside it that can be electrically seperated/isolated which enables U to have digital on one side/outlet and analog on the other outlet without any noise contamination between the two.
"Or if i use two UO , will it work the same?"
Using 2 UO's would be very beneficial as U could use one for digital and the other for 2 other pieces of gear for complete isolation.
U still get the same isolation if U use the UPC-200 or 2 UO's without the dedicated line but the dedicated line(s) would certainly help your overall system performance.
Cheers,
~kenster
Thanks. It's very helpful info which i'm looking for.
I like to the way UPC-200 constructed with IEC as it looks like a screw type,not solder type as in UO.
I'm not your best theorist here, but the issue on separating digital from analog, and in fact all these localized AC tweaks, is that AC is a 2 way street. The current flows in both directions and so does the pollution. So surely having a separate dedicated line for each leg would work best, but filtering/isolation at any point can help. That's because the last foot (or inches or whatever length your PC and isolation/filtering devise contributes) is also the first piece of the return 60 times per second! That makes isolating the digital between the wall and component effective in prevening some of the trash from entering the rest of the household wiring when it's generated within and from the digital gear.
Make sense to you? Try it and you'll undoubtedly like the results.
Even though you have several dedicated AC lines those lines would be paralled at the Square D box , wouldn't the digital noise still be on each leg unless isolated by a tranformer or filtered off by an RFI filter of some type ?
I run my whole system off one dedicated line , but filter my Transport and DAC with a diy Felicia balanced power transformer to keep the digital noise from my pre-amp , amp and subwoofer .
TIA
Joe
What you describe you do is what I'm saying should work well. As long as there is a good filter between the digital components and the rest of the system, then you are getting some significant results, even if they all plug into the same wall outlet (dedicated or not). I do that and it does work; remove the filter and you can tell immediately.
I don't have a hammond or a choke, but use the probably less effective transformer/R-C tweak. This is directly plugged into my analog chain, but in theory its parallel filtering effect should impact both digital and analog. I also use a Risch Digital Isolation Transformer for my digital chain, which is plugged into a different outlet at the wall than the analog chain.
Both work exactly as the board experience suggests and they (plus other RFI and filtering -but not conditioning) work well synergistically in my system.
The key is to treat the digital end and filter it and separate it as far from the analog as your circuitry will allow. Putting it in the same conditioner or outlet box as the analog is not going to work optimally.
The transformer/R-C or choke tweak appear to work on either side well, or as you read here, on both.
Maybe you might want to try this sometime....piggyback a balanced transformer off a isolation transformer. It is a little expensive, but well worth the cost.
Alan
Alan, LOL, I don't know a balanced from an unbalanced circuit only to say that I know I don't have the former!
Then, tell us.
Poinz
I use both, with an isolating transformer feeding my digital chain, first directly to my CD player then a hammond choke between that and other digital equipment downstream.Dont know if this is optimal, but I will try different configs.
The Hammond choke has made my DVD player (Im using analog outs) sound amazing, its now not far behind my CD player. Maybe because the DVD player was fouling its own nest with lots of RFI.
I am using two Audio Consulting 120VA isolation transformers with the Hammond 193L chokes and getting excellent results.
I use the DIY power conditioner for both digital and analog. It makes as much of a positive difference for vinyl playback as it does for CDs.
I don't know how the Powervars will work out, but it's probably worth experimenting.
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