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24.19.168.53
I am looking for the next best improvement to my modest system put together with modest means, therefore I would like some input from the cognoscenti as I cannot afford to make wrong choices..too much of that already.
My equipment; Prima Luna "Dialogue 2" tube ingrated w/phono card for MM, Rega P25 turntable with too many Rega tweaks that I wont list but never seemed to improve anything. An outboard Aragon phono stage for low output mc and high mm. Thats it...no cd, video, dacs etc.
The prima luna is listed as a 38 wpc, though under stats its power consumption is shown as 250 watts.
I recently installed a Oyaide SWO-XXX wall outlet (I think the XXX signifies is obscene price of 85$) Didnt notice too much of an improvement but didnt hurt.
I am interested in power cleaning, regenerating, filtering etc. I am mostly intrigued by PS Audio as they are innovators in this area.
Problem is that there are too many choices amongst their products.
I dont know if my power from the wall is dirty or not, but I suspect that since it is a new house, in a new subdivision with dedicated 15 amp outlets that it is fairly clean.
If I knew for a fact that I could throw a couple grand into a PS Audio product and it would produce awesome results you so often hear about I would do it. But, I suspect that the improvements will be subtle at best.
Soo......given all their products such as:
Power Plant Premier (2200$)
Quintessence power center (1200$)
Duet power center (295$)
UPC power directors (500$)
Ultimate outlet (299$)
Power plants such a p300, p500, etc Currently have to buy used for various prices on Ebay
If you have experience with any of these products or simply have some input that might help me make an informed choice please feel free.
Right now I am leaning towards the 295$ Duet as I dont have many sources, cannot use the multi wave functions for a synchronous turntable motor so that rules out the regenerators, or does it?
Follow Ups:
"My equipment; Prima Luna "Dialogue 2" tube ingrated w/phono card for MM, Rega P25 turntable with too many Rega tweaks that I wont list but never seemed to improve anything."
"I recently installed a Oyaide SWO-XXX wall outlet (I think the XXX signifies is obscene price of 85$) Didnt notice too much of an improvement but didnt hurt."
"I am mostly intrigued by PS Audio as they are innovators in this area."
Ummm, not really but they have made great strides in the power conditioning/regeneration arena.
Judging from your comments, it sounds like your not really convinced with the whole power conditioning concept. The Oyaide SWO-XXX comment is especially telling as 99% of the folks who install one hear quite an improvement and this makes me wonder if there are other areas of your system that need to be addressed first before venturing down the AC upgrade path.
Have U addressed your room acoustics? Have U addressed component isolation? Have U addressed proper speaker placement in your room?
Have U addressed component/speaker cabling issues?
"I dont know if my power from the wall is dirty or not, but I suspect that since it is a new house, in a new subdivision with dedicated 15 amp outlets that it is fairly clean."
New house/neighborhood/dedicated line does NOT mean your getting clean electricity. Does your system sound better at midnight than at noon?
As it stands with not knowing the answers to the questions I have posed,
I would suggest the option of converting your system over to balanced power which offers tremendous gains in electrical/system performance over unbalanced power with very few drawbacks.
I've included the Platinum Power link for U to peruse if your interested and this is just an example of the benefits Balanced Power provides.
Cheers,
~kenster
Kenster:
What's that thing cost? There's only the one model? It's bigtime overkill capacity-wise for my needs. All I got is amp, preamp, CD, tuner, and PS for turntable. Is very interesting design. Considering upgrading from my trusty PW 116.
Mike
"What's that thing cost? There's only the one model?"
The unit costs $2500 and yes there is only the PP-1. No word if Frank is going to offer other models.
"It's bigtime overkill capacity-wise for my needs."
When it comes to Balanced power, it is always beneficial to get as much current capacity as your budget allows. This is why the PP-1 costs as much as it does. It is one of the highest current capacity balanced transformers available in consumer models and the transformer is wired/wound with 10 gauge wire instead of the usual 12 gauge.
The PP-1 actually displaced a PS Audio P-600 AC regenerator in my main system and that is saying quite alot :-)
Cheers,
~kenster
Kenster,
Thanks for the info. When I was speaking of capacity I was refering to number of outlets. Way more than I need.
"When I was speaking of capacity I was refering to number of outlets."Oh, I see.......sorry.
I only use 2 of the outlets with the first outlet on the left, as viewed from the rear, being replaced with a cryo'd Oyaide SWO-DX and all the other unused ports with child safety caps installed.
The outlets are daisy chained from the first outlet on the left so I use the first one and the 4th outlet due to power cord routing issues.
Cheers,
~kenster
I have been using the line conditioners and power generators from PS Audio since the day of P300, and upgrade every time they have a new product. All I can say is that the current product lines really improve over all their respective old models by a large margin.
The best bang for the buck is the Duet if you need only 4 outlets, otherwise, it will be the Quintet with 10 outlets. With the recent reduction in price for the Duet and Quintet, I don't see they have any competition.
The best thing out of the Duet and Quintet is that you can use any big amp with it with NO lost of dynamic, bass punch etc. that is common when using any line conditioner. When I use the Duet with my ATC powered speakers, it even take away all the brightness with no lost of detail. My system is at its best with the Duet and the PPP.
One suggestion though. You should use the PS Audio Plus power cord to feed the PSA products, and the Statement power cord is much better. You don't need the SC series to feed the PSA products though. You can then use your favourite after market power cords to feed your other components.
op here. I failed to mention in the original post that my impetus for even pursuing this power clean/filter/regenerator avenue is that I recently suffered a tragic loss when my SS Bryston amp blew one channel and in turn fried the two bass drivers in my B&W 802n's
I dont know if this was caused by a surge/spike or if old age (18) of the bryston was a reason.
I have heard that plugging amps into these devices can tend to rob them of dynamics. Maybe a lower powered tube amp will be different?
At this point I am leaning towards the PS Audio Duet as it does basic filtering/protecting, does not provide options I cannot use such as the multiwave funtions.
My mind is not closed to other manufacturers such as Richard Gray, Shunyata etc but just not sure if they will do anything differently. Ok folds...lets hear from your experience...
Last year I bought a PS Audio UPC-200 and it was a GREAT investment of $300 or so for a B stock unit. It brought my system together in a harmonious and coherent way that I didn't realize it was lacking. It was like all the pieces of the puzzle were together and the UPC-200 removed the little lines between those pieces.
Several months ago I replaced the UPC-200 with the Duet, which didn't have quite the "night and day" affect of the UPC-200, but did seem to add a subtle amount of detail AND could handle my amp. Had my amp, pre, CDP and TT hooked into it.
A few weeks ago I bought a used P-300 Power Plant MWii and am running my CDP, Pre and TT on that hooked up to the Duet (which has my amp hooked-up to it). Each of these additions has added detail and clarity. Basically done what I had read (and hoped!) that they would do.
This end result has me SO SATISFIED! There will be no further upgrades to this present set-up given system location and budget, but this combination seems perfect for hear and now.
I think starting with the Duet is a sound investment, the price is right and the results - while dependent on system synergy - should be quite noticible. I think it's a good first step towards power conditioning, plus you'll have first rate surge protection. PS Audio makes great products and has excellent service, you can't go wrong with them.
There are many hear with far more experience with power conditioning than I, but my small step into it has proven to be a remarkable and satisfying one.
BTW: you may want to prepare to do the power cord promanade as you enter the power conditioning realm; the initial low-end PC I used from PSA with the UPC-200 did NOT do it. Things sounded....hampered. Once I switched to a TG Audio PC...events began to transpire quite nicely. ALL the parts of the system are important #678281!
Good luck and have fun with it!
Check my profile to see my system's components.
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
I wish I could tell you that I tried every conditioner you listed, and the best one was...
But I can't. I can tell you that for many years I was using a conditioner I built myself from an article in the sadly missed "Sound Practices" magazine. The only time I ever heard a difference with it was with my NHT subwoofer amp, which sounded better plugged into the unit.
Several months ago I read about the PS Audio Duet/Quintet. They drew me in with the 30 day money back guarantee and "specially priced at $295 only until the end of April". I ordered one, fully expecting to send it back.
I put it in the system, and didn't hear any difference. After about two weeks of use I took it OUT of the system one afternoon, and WOAH! All that stuff you read about like extra detail, clarity, "blacker backgrounds" etc. just went away. I plugged just my phono stage (McCormack Micro Phono Drive) back into the Duet and a lot of those qualities listed above returned. I proceeded to plug the entire system back in to the Duet with further improvement.
On one hand I was almost disappointed, because now I had spent over $300 for something I was fully expecting to return. On the other hand, I knew I couldn't live without the level of improvement the Duet gave me after hearing it.
One more interesting note: I tried my same experiment again, late at night, and heard very little difference. Must be a lot more noise on the lines during the daylight hours.
The only thing I'm second guessing myself about is that I should have ordered the Quintet instead of the Duet. I've got digital sources along with analog, and the extra plugs would have been nice. Now I'm going to have to either buy or try and make two VH Audio "Hot Boxes" to accommodate all my components.
Are the more expensive PS Audio products worth it? I really can't say. Are there other conditioners from other manufactures which would outperform either my Duet, or other, more expensive PS Audio products? I can't say that either. What I CAN say is that the Duet works for me, and it works well!
Good luck!
I am looking at the same issue. I recently moved to within a block of a hospital and notice that my system sounds better at night when they presumably shut down a lot of their diagnostic equipment. A Dealer I trust recommended the EQUI=TECH line of power conditioners, and he carries PSAudio as well. So I will be interested in the responses to your question.
I have some Oyaides on the way, and hope for an overall improvement, but don't know if they will help the dirty power issue.
I'd consider myself lucky. I'd try both, and buy the one which performed best in my system. I wish I had that option, but only had mail order choices.
I forgot to mention in my post above that I don't have a dedicated line installed yet. That's supposed to happen this week. I'll be using a Cryoed Acme outlet.
Maybe the Duet worked better for me since I didn't have a dedicated line installed. We shall see.
Next experiment after the dedicated line, DIY VH Audio power cords!
I now live five hours from the nearest dealer and rely on the Internet a great deal also.
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