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..............for adding some "warmth" or maybe "wetness" to a slightly dry sounding system?Don't get me wrong........the main system sounds great but is lacking a slight smidge of warmthness/humanity.
It sounds awesome on rock and roll but I throw on something like Harry Connick Jr. "We are in love" and it sounds a bit dry. Winston's sax on track 6 doesn't have quite the "brassiness" that I have heard reproduced in past systems.
My system details can be found at the link.
TIA
Edits: 05/21/07
Hi kenster,
No one has mentioned the room yet and I can think of some things to try that might help. The sonic "character" you're looking for might actually be there, but is masked by the bass response of the room.
From your system description:
"Have ASC tube traps on rear wall along with a huge thick blanket."
If the tube traps are full rounds and if the absorptive half faces out, then this and the blanket may be too much absorption which could contribute to a dry sound. Try replacing the blanket with say 4 of the RPG foam panels in a 2 x 2 array; a group of these often works best with about 2 inches of space between them. To refine this you can also rotate the tube traps and move the listening seat a little. If your listening position is near a bass null, moving it as little as a few inches could have a larger effect than the other changes.
The biggest problem with bass standing waves will be because of your room length and width dimensions being equal. More bass traps would probably help. The ASCs are very effective and of course not cheap, but to experiment without breaking the bank Jon Risch's 'Quick and Dirty' traps are a good choice. They are about 70% - 80% as effective as the ASCs and roughly 10% of the cost. I have ASCs stacked on Q&Ds and this has worked well for me.
You may have covered much of this ground already, but hopefully some of this is helpful.
Regards,
Jerry
Hi kenster,
I understand that your Walker Audio precision motor controller is a beautiful thing, but it won't address issues of the medium. I always demagnetize, then place a Herbie's mat on a CD whenever I do any serious listening (a must do, IME). As you know, we both have the same CDP/transport -- you might consider giving your CDP accessories another try... perhaps use of such may be of help. Otherwise, if you replace the Walker's rhodium Oyaide P-037 with a more liquid sounding Oyaide AC plug, this may be of great benefit since I don't consider the P-037 to be as "wet" sounding as the other models (I find the P-037 to be an odd duck in the line, IME). I also fully agree with the other folks in this thread concerning the use of wood for resonance tuning to help provide a more musical presentation. In fact, the only component platform in my system that’s highly damped (nominally acoustically dead sounding via the knuckle-rap test) is for use under my CDP/transport. However, things can really go way too far in that regard, as I found a very highly damped sounding 2.25" thick Boos Block maple board to virtually suck the life out of my transport's musicality, YMMV.
Cheers, Duster
Hey Duster/all,
Thanx for all the suggestions.
U know, I thought about the same thing with regards to the Oyaide P-037 plug and I threw an Oyaide P-079 on the end of the CD players PC and it swung the sound in the wrong direction....way too lush/lethargic.
For some reason, the P-037 is a killer match with the WAPMC but your right, maybe a different plug would dial 'er in :-)
I appears I should have been more descriptive with what I was after in my OP as I have gotten alot of very good suggestions but most are geared toward resonance tuning to increase musicality.
As U know, I have gone to great lengths with regards to system tuning/resonance control and my current main system is musical to the nines, one of the best I have assembled, including tubes, but the only thing missing is that last smidge of warmthness which can only really be heard on certain types of music. My toes get tired really quick with Rock and Roll and my air guitar playing is almost perfected :-)
In addition, the WAPMC has taken CD playback to a whole 'nother level entirely and the sonic results are staggering. Like I said in another reply, all the CD tweaks I have tried in the past pale in comparison to the WAPMC but I will certainly give some of the suggested tweaks a shot.
I see Cryo Parts now carries the Oyaide P-004. Maybe banging one of those on the CD players PC would be the magic elixir...............
Cheers,
~kenster
Cool :-) I bet a P-004 Beryllium would sound killer for digital apps vs. a P-037 -- I'll be glad to read your impressions of it (if you do), since I'm on the edge of getting a set of 004 Beryllium's to match my R1 Beryllium at the wall. IME, the palladium 046's perform to a great extent better than the gold 079's when mated to the R1, but there's something in my audiophiliac noggin telling me to give the 004's a try, instead. Besides, if the 004's don't jive when placed there, I can surely find use of them elsewhere...
:-D
Howdy
FWIW
One thing I've noticed as I tweak my system is that it's easy to head towards analytical for me if I use quick A/Bs to check tweaks. I'm better off living with a potential change for a week or so (listening everyday) and they going back to see what I think. This leads me to a more involving (but still revealing) system with more "boogie factor".
I know you like to tweak, so this might already be second nature to you.
-Ted
A customer was over the other day picking up his modded Oppo player.....he brought some CDs and was listening to my system using my modded Oppo. We played a disc of his that was a Cello and Organ duo....really interesting....however when we first played it all I was doing was being a critic in my head.....I kept thinking "the Cello sounds nasal, the ambiance is fuzzing up the imaging", etc. I asked him if I could sand the edges and also black them....I did this and immediately the first notes of the Cello practically had me in tears....really. The difference was huge...no longer nasal and very, very musical....more body.....much clearer and nice.
Of course, this does nothing for your turntable system....but how much does a piece of sandpaper cost and a Sharpy marker? Got nothing to lose except amusicality.
Hi Ric,
Could U go into detail about the "Sand and Black" procedure of the CD's?
I have a demagnetizer and use it sometimes but since I implemented a Walker Audio precision motor controller to power my CD player, all the CD tweaks I have tired pale in comparison :-)
Cheers,
~kenster
Kenster,
Found this on Ric's site. I've never tried it ... just found it.
Thank U sir,I just may give it a shot.
I heard a demo of the Audio Desk Systeme and damned if it didn't improve the sound but for ~600 bucks, it didn't provide the ROI I would expect for that kind of outlay.
One has to wonder about this as Ric is saying to sand the edges to make them opaque where these guys are trimming the edges to 38 degrees with a razor and both effect the sound.......in a positive way!!!
Cheers,
~kenster
;-)
OK, ease of use and clean up are the only benefits I actually obtained.
I use an ear wax syringe bulb to clean off the resulting debris.
First learned about the sanding technique from you BTW.
If you like your system the way it is except you want to tune it for a bit of this or that (like, "warmth" or maybe "wetness" from a slightly dry sounding system"), use exotic wood. I have been lately doing alot of experimenting with exotic woods within my system. Absolutely excellent for tuning any system, component, speaker, cabling, etc. Extremely effective.
If you are not familar with resonance tuning, look at Vansevers paper called, "Art & Science of Audio Tweaking". This is a downloadable .pdf file located here: http://www.vansevers.com/pdf.html
IMHO, Vansevers is spot on. The key is to understanding resonances, how they effect the sonics and your system as a whole. I am still experimenting. You can literally change the entire voicing and presentation of your system, or just tweak it a little. What kind of warmth, like midrange warmth? Try two small (like 1"w x 1"h x 1.5"l) pieces of Purple heart wood. Experiment with the wood "on top" of your source component first, then pre-amp, then speakers. Purple heart, cocobolo and blood wood is what I would try first. Squares, triangles, pyramids and different other shapes all sound a tad different. Although the resonance/sonic properties stay constant and will be imparted to the resonance frequency of whatever part of your system they come into contact with. The change can be subtle (good or bad) to dramatic. Then if the change is good, the change still can be tweaked...:o) Very cool!
Good luck and have fun...Chris
I've been using ceramic cones, ceramic tiles, Herbies grungebuster gasket material, and Machina Dynamica Brilliant Pebbles in what I presume to be a similar capacity. I am getting dramatic and pleasing results with these items in the right locations.
Yes, somewhat similar. I have recently been pleasantly (thrilled is more like it) surprised that every component or part of an audio system can be tuned. Even cabling. The effect can be very dramatic. What I was basically suggesting to Kenster, was to use a wood (I have only found exotic wood to be effective) that will impart a different resonating frequency to his system. A resonating frequency that will adjust a component to get the results he is looking for. In the same way that instrument makers use wood to voice an instrument. If the right wood or combination of wood is used, on the right component, very little wood is needed to effect change. Every component/part of our audio system resonate at a specific frequency. Making these resonating frequencies friendly to improve the sonic presentation is the goal. Really fun to play/experiment with and highly rewarding. At least for me it has been.
Chris
I forgot to mention that crystal pieces can be used on these ceramic tile tables to good effect as well many times. I have one location where the crystal sounds better than the Brilliant Pebbles although the BP's usually smoke the crystal.
I know someone that sings the praises of pernambuca wood as recommended by Vans Evers; if you ever decide to have some made up I would love to have a share in that order with you. I had a friend make up some pieces in the prescribed sizes, but nothing terribly exotic. I liked the sound of the mahogany as footers. Haven't tried them as resonators though.
I have excellent results with 4" thick mapleshade wood platform (from www.mapleshaderecords.com) for instance my Acoustic Signature Final Tool Turntable, my speakers, etc. they sound just much better, more body and musicality. Good luck, let us know your experiences. Best, Antonio Machado.
Albert Porter sells some good ones on Audiogon. I'm aware of the sonic improvement that Oyaides make, but the Hubbells will definitely add some warmth. Squishy footers, or at least footers that aren't hard or pointy will also help, although I gather that the downside of these is that they smear the images somewhat, but tonal balance trumps imaging for me.
Another way of adding warmth is with power cords. Cardas cords will do this, but I've been much more impressed with the Electraglides. They enlarge the soundstage considerably. For speaker cables and interconnects, I have used Cardas to take the edge off of things. I gather that their newer lines are more "neutral", but the traditional Cardas cables, i.e. Golden Cross, Cross, or Twinlink, can warm up a system. However I see that you have Audioquest speaker cables, so the Cardas might not be that much of a difference tonally.
Any way, I hope that some of these observations are useful to you.
maybe a tube buffer for your passive pre?
Yes, this was my thought. link below to MF tube buffer review. hard to fault this value oriented system. You've spent some time experimenting with vibration/resonance. But maybe try the Ken Lyon approach of light, rigid energy-dissipating design....cheap (Ikea) to moderately-priced(Torlyte). As others have said, wood may help.
Thanx for the tube buffer suggestion but I have already tried it and I loose too much resolution when an X-10D, along with the upgraded MF power supply, was implemented.
They now reside in my collection of electronics.
I'm thinking about going the maple wood route :-)
Thanx again.
~kenster
Big Fat Black Dots under speakers are a no brainer IME.
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