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72.244.70.105
Is anyone else having a problem with Ron Welborne?I've been a customer of his for a five or six years and have generally been pleased with his selection and service. However, on my most recent order he failed to include some wire (Cardas interconnect wire that he used to list as CARD8) or apply the 15% discount that he was offering and I qualified for (in spite of the absence of the wire). I sent Ron a couple of polite notes; he responded by deflecting my inquiries about the wire and ignored my request for a credit for the missing discount.
The wire was needed for a pair of interconnects I was building and it made little sense to contact Michael Percy or Partsconnexion when all I wanted was a 5' length, so I went to the source. Cardas kindly sent me the wire and told me that they were also having serious problems with Welborne Labs.
I wish this wasn't happening. The wire was annoying, but hardly a huge deal. The amount Ron owes me on the discount isn't huge (under $20), but the principal bothers me -- I earned a discount he advertised and I never got it. But I don't like being treated this way and there are very good alternatives to Welborne Labs.
So I ask the question: Is anyone else having a problem with Ron Welborne?
Regards,
Scott
Follow Ups:
Yes I am still having problems. I have posted in the general forum my expereince. I have still not received all my parts. I was told the remaining parts were re-shipped (even though i was told they had been sent 2 months ago) and when this package showed up its still missing the tubes and a set of chokes and of corse no promised discount still. As well I was sent some cheap rca connectors not the cardas rca as advertised, I guess cardas no longer deals with welborne. No one is going to convince me that all is well at welborne labs, Its going on 5 1/2 months of this bs and now I am being lied to about shipping and sent cheap parts. I am not here to bitch and moan or "bash", I am a very frustrated paying costumer who is being given a run around by a company in question and am sharing it with other potential costumers so that they are aware and dont end up in this situation. I wish I had read some of the stuff I've seen on the forums before ordering but I felt no need to check, I have been buying various items and a such from welborne for 5 years.
Scott,I would consider myself lucky you got off so cheap. My advice is let your wallet do the talking. Cut off all purchases to Welbourne labs and other manufacturers that do you this way. Any business that does business has occassional Snafu's. The difference is some are willing to make it right and some just feel Customer Service is something that they don't want or need to deal with. Shame on John Curl for making excuses. when a certain dealer has a repeated history of poor customer service, then I advise to run as fast as possible from them.
Johnny.
Actually I was reacting to one sided trashing, which often happens around here. Welborne may in fact be getting too flaky for his own good.
About a year ago I had the same problem - he refused to answer my emails about a part that was not included with my package. Anyway after 6 emails, multiple phone calls and a months time I called my creditcard company and his local chamber of commerce and was immediately sent a email saying my emails had mistakenly ended in his SPAM folder - which if I hadn't sent my emails with read receipts I would have believed... I felt bad for doing that, but it was the only way I saw to get either a response or my money back.I understand the complaints about not griping and spreading a bad public image, but I believe that if we did not appreciate Welbornes products we would not try to reconcile with others here online but rather would immediatly call our Banks to shut him down. Ron has great products, but in a world with the internet connecting the small audiophile community he is either going to have to change his public relations and feedback or loose all our buisiness. I personally hope he changes.
Me, nothing but a bystander here. And have questioned any/all of my participation in these now months, of similar posts. I've found most everyone's thoughts/posts civil, respectful, measured, and reserved. Even in the face of some well .... eye opening/wtf? behavior. Some made reference to their's and other's decision to soft peddle their difficulties, from years past. Acting with great restraint.Unfortunate that the Asylum's strength, could not have been used/displayed in something let's say, more positive. But myself, I've seen nothing here for anyone to be ashamed of, in any way shape or form. One can't predict the future, but until some change/s (of whatever kind), take place in/at the aforementioned business? Then merely driving around and ignoring the virtual and atomic car wreck that is. Will not stop the exclaimations of anyone yet caught unawares by the anti-freeze coated curve.
.
Respectfully, Elmo
I would make a general comment about small manufacturers, like Welbourne or myself, so as to clear the air.
First, small manufacturers are sometimes flaky. This is often because they do not have droves of minions who are in charge of specific tasks. Sometimes they will overlook something, and a customer, who otherwise might be very happy with the final product, might get really offended and will BADMOUTH the small manufacturer on the internet.
For example, years ago, I did a repair-upgrade of a Vendetta phono preamp and I returned it, without a RECEIPT. The customer later asked me for a reciept, but I didn't have a receipt book, so I ignored his request, feeling that his cancelled check was adequate. I never seemed to hear the end of it!
Please folks, I realize that you don't have to continue to buy from a specific small manufacturer, but do you endlessly have to badmouth them, without any defense offered from the other side? It sounds pretty 'henhouse' to me.
Welborne charged my credit card 3 months ago. But up to now, I received nothing from them. I have been keeping contacting them for one month, through e-mails. But not even a reply was received. Therefore, I have the same question to ask Welborne. And I do really hope it's just a mistake.
here is my order no.:# 1951-6815-7371
I know it could be possible that my e-mails were blocked somewhere by the spamfilters. So please, if Welborne see this post, reply to me.
Just type one up in any text program: date of purchase/work done, price paid, item purchased or work done. And email it out. Couldn't be easier!
.
...is clearly not customer-oriented. Providing a receipt is an extremely simple thing to do (a couple of minutes?) and I'm amazed that there are manufacturers out there that find providing a receipt to be somehow beneath them. (You don't need a "receipt book", they have these things called "computers" now that make such tasks quick and easy.) To not even respond to the customer is just rude.Of course it is up to the customer to decide whether the benefits of doing business with a particular manufacturer outweigh the manufacturer's cavalier attitude towards customer care. Maybe what some manufacturer does is so wonderful and unique that customers will choose to put up with unprofessional service. After reading the messages below, I would never buy a Curl product, regardless of how it sounded. There are too many other fine amps out there from companies that treat customers right.
In any case, forums like this are useful in educating customers about what they may expect from different companies, so we can all make informed choices according to our own priorities.
I was not MANUFACTURING units, I just repaired and upgraded an older design. I work out of my apartment. I was not set up as a business at the time.
First line of your post:"I would make a general comment about small manufacturers, like Welbourne or myself, so as to clear the air."
Not that it really matters. If you were being paid for your efforts, whether for a product (amp) or a service (repair), IMO the customer was within his rights to request a receipt - and to expect a response to an inquiry. Again, just my $0.02.
He cancelled the payment. So he was not paid for the work, so no reciept can be issued - no money changed hands.In these cases a compliments slip normally suffices, and JC freely confesses that he was not set up as a business at that point i.e. he was at the start of the learning curve in some respects.
Owen
no text
John,You should look at it this way. If you provide a reciept it will save a later phone call when this customer goes to sell the unit. He will have documentation on the work done to the unit, and the future buyer will not have to call you to confirm that the upgrade was done on the unit.
Johnny
Good point, receipt on request next time. I even now own a receipt book!
John:I'm afraid this thread is slowly (and perhaps unintentionally) being hijacked. I do understand that small vendors often operate on the very edge of profitability. And it isn't my intention to slur someone for a one-time mistake; heaven knows I'm only human and screw up often enough myself. I posted the question about Ron Welborne because my most recent experience with him seemed uncharacteristic, given that I've had many positive dealings with Welborne Labs. However, this latest transaction did not go well. Ron has ignored a succession of polite inquiries sent over the past month. I feel abandoned and, regarding the discount I earned but never received, ripped-off. The comments from the folks at Cardas only confirmed my latest experience -- something's not right at Welborne Labs.
And frankly, under the circumstances, I think posting my message was the reasonable, DIY community-friendly thing to do.
I also urge Ron Welborne to respond. If he were to step up and correct this small matter, I would be more than happy to acknowledge its resolution.
Regards,
Scott
Welbourne charged my credit card weeks before he shipped my amp kit that was missing 40% of its parts. And he never sent all the parts.I think the way to break welbourne is to order things from him and then tell him nothing was in the box and have him send more. He is too out of it to know the difference.
I would never buy from you or trust your word from this point on.
I doubt that you could afford what I actually manufacture myself, in any case.
... makes unsuspecting reader think bad about that company, which doesn't have anything to do with it, or with you.
You are being a HARDASS, carcass.
when the other side cann't defend the indefensible?
Why don't you get with him and tell him he is making you small guys look bad.
and I have read good things about CTC and Vendetta, but you have just lost all credibility with me.
That's OK. I don't do well with Bozos, in any case.
You should definitely be in PR.;-)
I have to respectfully disagree with you, Mr. Curl. I understand your "one man band" position, and realize it must be difficult to keep track of everything when running a business by yourself.And if I read one post, from one guy, who complained that he asked for a receipt and didn't get it, I'd ignore it. Even if it was one guy who had worse things to say I'd still understand it was only one guy. But when the floodgates open like this, and so many people have had bad experiences, I'm happy to hear about it. Otherwise, how would I know? Welbourne's site doesn't have an eBay like "feedback" section. I wouldn't expect them to.
These posts serve as a consumer service, and I for one am saying "Thank You!" to my fellow Inmates. I'll keep giving my business to Parts Connexion instead. I've had nothing but great experiences with them.
m
Well Tom, you ought to see me on a BAD DAY! ;-)
Jon curl wrote: Bitch, moan and gripe! I hate customers like you guysI dont like you either so there....
Jon you have no idea what the hell your talking about I have been reading these posts for months I myself have been ripped off by ron welborne... countless emails and phone calls to no avail I havent posted before because i did not want to hurt the little guy but this little guy should be out of business period!! not only did he rip me off my friend too this hobby should be fun but companys like welborne make it not fun anymore...nobody cares
Have a nice day
Lawrence
I made one of his preamps. It require over 30 emails. Many missing parts. (Here are some parts in a box see if you can make something with it.) It took two months to get most of the parts. He never supplied all of the parts so I purchased them from other sources.The preamp was nothing great and was a big pain to use with lots of poping and such.
The balance was never correct. I was tired of dealing with him, so I sent it back.
My credit card company got my money back.
I spent many many hours on that preamp. Left a bad taste in my mouth about High End.
I tried to do business with him several years ago when he was asking for people to supply kits he could sell. I sent him several kits, all built on teflon pcb's, among which was a solid state volume control that operated using hermetically sealed relays with gold plated bi-furcated contacts and had no non-soldered connections in the volume control He diddled and diddled and finally asked me to send him a preamp with the volume controls installed so he could listen to it and judge the volume controls' sonics ?!!!!!! (I don't know what the hell he was going to compare them to nor how, not knowing what the preamp sounded like with an other volume control). Also, he wanted to price the volume control kits so that I'd get 5-10% on each kit he sold. I told him to return the kits and take a long walk on a short pier. He returned the kits, but apparently he didn't take the walk.
He left out part of my order and charged my credit card another $30 shipping to send it.
That was the last straw after all the unreturned calls and emails.
He was (past tense) great but my last order took three weeks. Saw trouble coming so I crossed him off my list
Look around and you'll see a number of posts with the same complaints you're airing.
Do a search in the SET forum and you'll find other posts on Welborne Labs.
My refund cost me thru paypal because he sent cash instead of a refund.All emails were ignored.Bad service,super slow shipping.I won't do business with him ever again.No other business is this bad.Mike
Bitch, moan and gripe! I hate customers like you guys.
I've paid hime plenty of money to bitch,moan,and gripe.Step off!!!
You may have a problem, but it doesn't seem bad enough to bad mouth him in public about it.
And for the others, I don't work at Parasound. I only have visited the Parasound office in San Francsico, once or twice in the last 15 years. They might kiss your behind, but I will not.
The simple point that I am trying to make is that it is easy to quibble over 'some' problem. I have a friend who is a master at this, and got Krell to take back all of his amplifiers, even though he got them at very heavy (reviewer) discount, many years before. I was not particularly impressed by his reasons.
Perhaps you need to edit the (M) designation after your moniker; it presently implys that you ARE Parasound.
That's not right. I make CTC and Vendetta Research. I only DESIGN Parasound audio products (some of them).
You may not be familiar with many similar posts, but others around hear are, and being so makes your initial response seem cavalier and crude.
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
- http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=general&n=478708&highlight=musetap&r=&session= (Open in New Window)
Maybe, you have a point.
a 9 for humor, and a nine for just in the nick of time timing. Gosh ... I'm sure I'm not alone in finding the lengthy continuity of the negative vibe, about Mr. Welborne and his biz, rather unpleasant.
One could possibly think personal, family, or health problems may be leveraging whatever reputation he may once have had? But that would be benefit of the doubt projecting on my part. There is no question however that his business protocols are a disgrace.
Mr. Welborne's silence, here, on this platform. And among these individuals of this community. Does him zero benefit.
he is just too cheap to hire help, and tries to do it all.
.
There seems to be an awful lot of posts of late on this subject. I could understand one or two, but I have read 8 in about the same number of months. All were very similar in terms of incomplete orders, lack of response, and/or rude treatment. I'm not in a position to tell Ron, or you fr that matter, how to conduct business, but in my opinion, and I am the one shelling out the cash as the consumer, that is not acceptable business practice to me.
Bad business practices should not be rewarded.If things were on the up and up,I would report it so.Otherwise-when things go wrong,I'll tell everybody.When things go correctly-I'll tell a few.I honestly believe we all are above average consumer with this expensive hobby we have and we will continue to share our thoughts and experiences with others.When it stinks-I call it stinky.Mike
N/T
"I always play jazz records backwards, they sound better that way"
-Thomas Edison
Wow. I'll certainly never. ever. not. consider, audition, or buy ANYTHING from Parasound. Not from a manufacturer who hates customers.GEEEZZZZZ!
Joe
San Marcos, Texas
N/T
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