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Hey guys -- i posted a ways back about having myriad issues with my "refirbished" A77.. and have just got off the phone with Jack at JM Tech. Services.Turns out while my deck has Mark IV cosmetics.. it is in fact a Mark II in Mark IV clothing.. at this point, it's no major thing to me.. its mine and i just want a nice serviceable piece of equipment.
In addition to the first brilliant restoring outfit not flagging the model difference, the deck had a minor gain issue and prominent recording issues due to shot trim pots throughout. Even after the lousy restore job, the brakes still need some help.. he was not able to source OEM pads for the brakes, but is able to do a few things to allow the brakes and transport to function to factory specs, as he says.
None of this comes as a real surprise.. as it became increasingly clear yo me that the first guy, didn't seem to know what the hell he was doing. I chose him because to my novice exp., he initially sounded savvy about the deck and he offered a long, multi-year service warranty for it. Warranty ain't much good if you can't fix a Revox deck properly, is it? After I began to learn more and more about Revoxes (by default given the sitch. really), it seemed clear that the guy was incompetent.
So to sum it all up, while i'm out a few hundred from the first botched restorer treatment, he did manage to replace shot VU meters with good ones, clean the heck out of it cosmetically, find me a nice cabinet for it and supplied me with a number of little cosmetic and rubber treatment products that SHOULD be helpful ;-) I could call him and bitch and moan and see if i can get some funds back.. but that will likely be a futile and frustrating experience. Maybe i'll call him.. i can't decide.. may just want to chock it up to a loss.. i do have some financial victories in this hobby to largely offset the bad experiences.
In hidsight, it seems I should have come here first and found out about Jack and JM.. I don't have it here working perfectly.. but he seems to have a great rep. and sounded very competent on the phone. His rates were not ridiculous either.
Thanks for listening.. i'm really dying to record some things and it would appear i am close to being able to. I'll let you all know how it goes when i have the unit back.
Thanks, Marc
Edits: 06/09/07Follow Ups:
Hmm, I had an A77 mkll that I had MklV cosmetics applied. Is yours 1/2 track? That's how the cosmetic upgrade started. 1/4> 1/2 track conversion. There was a dent above the NAB/IEC switch so I thought, what the heck. I sold it here in Ca. in '82 I think.
--
Hiya, Marc!
Some further thoughts on revamping your ReVox A-77 MK IV:
Have I mentioned to you that the ReVox/Studer tech guys used to recommend the removal of the original brake drums on some older ReVox A-77's, which they told me to wipe clean with some isopropyl alcohol, let dry and then place in a toaster oven (no lie!) and bake them at about 180 degrees for perhaps fifteen minutes?
Just like Betty Crocker would say....
Let cool, and again clean with alcohol and re-install.
I also remember that in the later machines, like yours, they may have switched to a vastly different brake lining material, but A-77's were somewhat notorious for squaling brakes in the days of yore.
This blows the warranty on your toaster oven, and will forever make your bagels taste odd, but it drives out the gooey crud that seeps up from the binder on the original brake linings and also helps deter or prevent SQUEAL on them when you hit the STOP button. Of course you should NEVER just hit the STOP BUTTON! You should first hit the REVERSE motion button to slow down the transport and THEN HIT THE STOP BUTTON! Who wants to break a tape!
And, I also believe I had mentioned that these old machines had very fragile trimmer pots onboard the varous circuit cards. They simply do not hold up over time, unless you completely replace them with Bourns miniature type PC-mount PRECISION trim pots, but then you would have to completely go through the entire deck, testing stages and re-adjust for proper BIAS and EQ on the machine.
That is just part of proper overall restoration and maintenance, aside from complete replacement of all the old caps in the unit.
Ah! Dont you love those ReVoxes?
Best of luck!
Richard Links
Berkeley, CA
Sorry, dopey Get Smart reference.. Richard, as per Jack at AB Tech. my deck is actually a MkII with MkIV cosmetics on the front.
So your brakes suggestion should be helpful down the road.. I will email you off board soon to discuss how easily the brake pads can be removed and re-installed. I can buy a crappy toaster for $15 if i want to get the Holly Hobby brake pad cakes going.
Should (fingers crossed) be good-to-go for awhile when i get the unit it back form AB Tech. He also determined that ALL of the trim pots needed replacing.. The brakes were not running up to spec, so you're 2 for 2 my man. I'll let you know how it goes when i get the deck in hands. Already planning my first few RTR playlists ;-)
Any recent gear scores at that magical spot near you recently? Still can't belive you snagged a 400CX2 for chump change in great shape.
Be good & enjoy the weather -- Marc
So, Marc!
Does your Mark II in a "Mark IV" disguise, also have the moving roller bearing installed on the circular flanged (5/8" diameter?) FEED side tape guide, positioned slightly ahead of the erase head on your deck? (Not the 1/4" post-type with the little hex nut and dollop of red sealant on the top!)
A long time ago, they installed this feature after manufacturing the Mark I and I know for a fact that it came standard on my Mark III.
Not sure if it did on the Mark II.
Without it, frequency response above 10 K is not as linear.
I believe that this innovation functioned as a sort of "flutter filter" in essence.
See if your guide has a moving bearing surface between the flange pieces. The other upgrade was the inclusion of a damped hydraulic swinging arm to the left of the erase assembly. Again, I seem to recall that on Mark I decks, this was a sort of immovable post.
ReVox used to offer an upgrade piece at one time, but you needed to cut a pathway through the top plate to accommodate it.
If yours is stationary and identical to the one to the right of the play head assembly (you might see a flat wear spot on the right-hand one), then you need to get the proper bearing part from ReVox or whomever and install one, if it is even available.
Installation of the "flutter filter" bearing is a very simple task, indeed and will make a big difference in performance on your machine. If you need a damped arm installed, that is a lot more difficult.
Richard Links
Berkeley, CA 94703
Hi, Marc!
Be sure that you wear the official "Busy Baker" cooking gloves when inserting or retrieving your ReVox brake drums from that oven!
You must remove the top plate of your machine and then remove three philips flat head screws on the top of each of the two "spindle turntables". Next, I believe that there is a securing screw to release the little brake drum from its spindle below. Get on the gloves and clean it with isopropyl alcohol, let dry and bake for about 15 minutes at perhaps 180 degrees F. Let cool and serve!
I never had to replace the fabric on the brake drums on my ReVoxes (Mark III and Mark IV), just had to intermittently clean them.
Forgot to also mention that it is necessary to thoroughly clean the inside surface of the stainless steel brake band attached to the break clutch/solenoid. Xylene is good for that one, or either isopropyl, even denatured alcohol. Use isopropyl ONLY on the fabric, however, NOT denatured or even Xylene, if you have it.
Anyway!
The only other cool deal I got recently was when I acquired a Magnum Dynalab FT-11 in a local thrift shop. I still have not removed or opened up the sticking meters to see what the problem actually is.
They wanted $25 each for the replacements at the factory and claimed or implied improper storage of the unit. BIG-TIME BALDERDASH!
I never heard such absolute nonsense before. First of all, even though I am obviously NOT an original owner, and secondly, there is no visible sign that this unit was stored improperly or subjected to anything weird. But honestly, I have never seen meters in a more modern tuner do this, aside from some in three of my Yamaha CT-7000's or perhaps one a long time ago in a Fisher unit I owned. The Yamaha meters were sticking because some of the original orange-red paint had flaked off and was binding between them and the back side of the front cover lens piece. I removed them and cleaned them all, then repainted them with very beautiful, almost fluorescent enamel paint!
El Perfect-O!
Oh, forgot to mention that I picked up a neat old pair of Jensen miniature bookshelf speakers the other day which are called X-10s. I believe they need to be opened up and the level controls cleaned or replaced.
They are attractive little beauties, probably from the mid sixties, I think.
That is about "it" from here, however!
Oh, forgot to also mention that I picked up a sealed package in a local Goodwill Store here in Oakland today which is something made by Delta Technical Coatings and it is designed to coat glass surfaces with frosted white. The product is called "Air-Dry PermEnamel" and it is described as a "Glass Etching Paint Kit".
This would be potentiall super-duper for recreating the original frosted type 47 incandescent miniature bayonnet lamps which go in some of the classic Fisher receivers and tuners!
I'll have to try using it!
Nice to hear from you!
Richard Links
Berkeley, CA
I'll email you and send a few .jpegs of the tape path to determine exactly what i've got. At this point, i'd take Jack's word for it that it's a Mark II with IV cosemetics in the front.
Bums me out a bit cause i really liked the idea of the Mark IV.. At this point i just want a friggin' deck to play with.. Soon enough.. Should be here next week.
Cheers, Marc
p.s. if you told me that you just found a MArantz 9 in the trash i was gonna fly out and rob your house ;-)
Best i've found around here were some AR18s and a Pioneer receiver.. then again, i don't look hard and don't work the right places. Wife has also decreed.. "no more stereo stuff, okay?"
Hiya, Marc!
I never do this seriously, you know. It may sound as if that is true, but not the case in fact.
I just have a nice leisurely stroll through the local flea markets and interesting thrifts and seem to have some good luck at times.
Oh, that rumor of finding the fabled Marantz 9's in the garbage can!
That's certainly part of the lore going around--an urban legend.
I saw one at a Ham Radio Swap Meet twenty years ago and the guy selling it (missing its meter) wanted $1K for it then, if that tells you something.
Who knows what might happen in the future, though?
I will try to assist you with regard to your ongoing adventure with the ReVox A-77, however. I still own the Mark III and Mark IV, both of which are low-speed 1/4-track machines.
Richard Links
Berkeley, CA
A little time saving trick for trimpot replacement:
Measure the original trimpot resistance setting and set the replacement trimmer to the same value before you install it.
Hi, DocB!
Yes, I forgot to also mention that, so thanks for the clever suggestion!
Rich Links
Berkeley, CA
Sorry to hear about your deck woes. Hopefully it'll all pan out in the end and you'll be happy. Definitely keep us posted. Don't get discouraged or disillusioned and abandon the hobby before having a chance to enjoy a *FUNCTIONING* deck.And for what it's worth, Marc's ordeal is a textbook example of why I always urge so-called "newbies" to buy the best and often most expensive deck they can find and afford-AFTER they have determined the model they want. A deck that first comes to you in immaculate condition-backed with a warranty/guarantee IN WRITING, it will cost a lot. Up front.
But as Marc learned the hard way, the 'bargain' you thought you were scoring on the front end often ends up costing more....sometimes WAY more in repairs, time, and frustration on the back end. When it comes to vintage components and quality, the worst and most foolish thing you can do is 'spend a dollar to save a dime'. Given a choice of two identical model decks, one costing....say....$300 and the other....say...$750, each being in commensurate actual condition, I would say that more than 99% of the time, the $750 deck will ultimately prove to be the better bargain: While the person who bought the 'cheap' deck is pulling his hair out because this and that doesn't work properly or at all, then spending umpteen hours on the phone and on the web looking for a competent repair shop, then lugging it in and out of the car. Or worse, shipping it back and forth all over the world, the guy who bought the "ripoff" priced deck is already on his fourth case of tape.
Just my four (not two) cents.
..i'd say about the only caveat is that the orig. "bargain" A77 I bought came with the nice and fancy Revox silver locking NAB adaptors.. These go for stupid $$ on eBay and helps to soften the blow of paying for two refirbs a bit. I also gather the first guy i paid did clean up what he describes as a "really dusty machine".. thus proving out your theory that it's a good idea to either buy in person or grab what X-2000-R speaks of.. a largely guaranteed performing, clean deck upfront.
Very true, that in the end, the big loss is really time. Granted i've had other things to do and there was plenty of idle time between all the maneuvers with this deck -- but, i bought this unit about a year ago.
God only knows all the tape i could've abused in the meantime
Ya know i'll keep ya posted when i start a rippin' ;-)
Marc
I've said this over and over again on other forums. Places like fleabay are NOT *usually* going to reward you with fine running and cosmetically perfect machines-in spite of what the seller says or his percentage feedback 'rating'. Some of these sellers are just plain stupid, thieves or they really don't give a damn, while the few honest sellers go the extra mile to tell you what you're really bidding on.
Best thing is to find a good restoration shop, not some local clown who can make 'good' every now and then on a deck-given there isn't much wrong with it and/or he's not taxed for knowledge. Always better to pay more for a refurbished deck that a shop stands behind and is KNOWN in the audio community to do good work. Stories of positive feedback abound online about these places-even here. Often, their customers bag out before they lay down the final payment and there is a fine deck waiting, restored for a very reasonable price-the shop mainly trying to get back what they have into it, plus some reasonable profit margin for their effort. Some of these shops have units they own, waiting for an interested customer to start the restoration process.
I won't bore anyone with my folly and this old Tandberg 9241XD with unobtanium peak meters. It was a real 'deal' alright that eventually is going to cost me about $400 in restoration costs to perform like it should. Oh well, I salute you fleabay for culturing another rube.;-)
ONE YEAR....as in 52 weeks...12 months....a full cycle of winter/spring/summer/fall.
and the OP has yet to record or play a single tape.
-nuff said.
I knew there was some reason why I like my Teacs so much.
A week trying to make an A-77 work just confirmed it :-)
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