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In Reply to: RE: JB/MSS/Etc posted by otari on November 14, 2009 at 22:01:48
I don't know much about the gray market.
When I lived in Manhattan, I recall avoiding the stores that sold products at a steep discount with only the "international warranty" because I had read that that meant no warranty. It was not an ethical decision, but just a risk allocation decision.
I did buy a Mont Blanc pen and pencil set at Staples years ago, because the price was so much lower than at authorized dealers. Staples was open about not being an authorized Mont Blanc distributor. They would not sell actual Mont Blanc ink, and the serial numbers were rubbed off of their pens. I gathered that was "gray market", but didn't really think about it. I do not think Staples is still doing this, but it's been years since I've even looked at a pen display case anywhere.
So, what exactly is the gray market? Is any sale of a product by a dealer who is not an authorized dealer the gray market? Are there different levels of gray market?
I can see the points you make, but just because it may be common practice, and because a rogue authorized dealer is also involved, does not make it "right" to do what these types of unauthorized dealers are doing. It does still hurt the company and those dealers who are not involved in such conduct.
On the other hand, I agree with you that any discount seeker (I'll avoid the use of the term skinflint :-) since I think all purchasers resort to such practices on occassion) should be prepared to accept the risk when entering into such a transaction, and should not act shocked that certain protections do not come with it.
And yet, since I don't really understand the gray market, I think it's possible that the OP below didn't either. I would have been surprised to have seen a serial number rubbed off if I had bought something from Mr. Boey's outfit. Until now.
Oh, and one other question I hope you can explain to me: Why do these authorized dealers go this "back dooring" route? Why not just offer a special deal to regular customers on the pieces they cannot sell at the price that MSS and others offer? It would seem to be illegal price fixing for a manufacturer to prevent that, but then I am not an expert in anti-trust law.
I found your post very informative, and would appreciate your thoughts on my questions and comments.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Follow Ups:
> > Why do these authorized dealers go this "back dooring" route? Why not just offer a special deal to regular customers on the pieces they cannot sell at the price that MSS and others offer?It depends. Usually, dealers will do this because the manufacturer either requires them to buy a certain dollar amount of goods or offers significant discounts above some level. The dealer knows that they can't sell that much, but if they can unload a certain amount at cost, then they carry the rest and make some extra profit.
One would think that they'd just put the extra stuff on ePay, but their contracts can limit them from selling out of their territory. Making them sell at certain price points is dicey; however, there are lots of things that can be done to dealers that don't quite tow the line that have the same effect as forcing them to maintain price levels which may or may not be legal. Dealers usually won't fight it if it's a good and profitable line. Vandersteen is an example of one that you won't find discounted much if at all because Richard doesn't like it and dealers want to keep the line.
-Rod
Edits: 11/16/09
The dealer would sell to JB/MSS out the back door long before he/she would accommodate a regular customer in such a manner. The customer would then be expecting this dealer to accommodate them ALL the time. None worse than 'philes to cry poormouth and shave pennies off high-dollar items they'll always tell you that they "can't afford", or "shouldn't be buying". I've heard this line so many times if I were paid for hearing it I'd never have to sell another used piece, as I would already have all the money I could ever use.
Common sense would say the dealer reward a loyal customer by tossing him or her a bone now and then, however it does not happen much.
I make no excuses for my plain talk in my original post. I call them as I see them, and am not politically correct.
Best,
otari :-)
My mother-in-law, after seeing the Levinson 33H amps in my listening room: "Those are the nicest electric room heaters I've ever seen".
The basic meaning is selling a product designated for one market in another.
For example, approved for sell in one country but not another. I'm sure there are more details than I know.HOW ABOUT THEM COLTS!?
-Wendell
Edits: 11/16/09
Hopefully they'll play again this year.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
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