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In Reply to: RE: to clarify the irregularity in the dispute. posted by audiophile36 on June 15, 2009 at 20:56:11
Desperate for what troll, my money... here is a copy and paste.
I want to thank everyone who did go to the dispute and offer there opinions. I apologize but I should of never asked you to go. Even though I did not ask you to side with me, audiogon felt that I did. Apparently there was a resounding agreement with my side and audiogon felt I did something unethical. They are not used to seeing that much interest in a dispute and thats what triggered there paranoia. Apparently they dont have a whole lot to do. So they conjure up complexities to rally against. Anyways, you know me, I dont give up that easily. There is a thread on audioasylum right now, that you may find interesting...Just look at the cables forum.
I will be listing free elf audio cables this weekend but I dont suspect any of you would be interested.
Also if these emails are starting to piss you off, just email me back and kindly say "shut the ---- up" and I will refrain from contacting you in the future...
Cheers
Rudolff
Follow Ups:
Rudy those aren't even emails...you are just typing in what you are imagining in that diabolical head of yours...talking to yourself in third person...wow!
That is the biggest piece of crap I have ever read...nobody believs the rubbish you are typing...not paypal,not Audiogon...not anybody!
According to you I don't get any business so why in the heck would there be sooooo much intrest in the dispute forum on Audiogon? There was not a single reply by any member...AGAIN GET A LIFE!
Having just noticed this thread, I need to interject a couple of things, as a response here and to one other of mr. elf's posts below. These will serve to undermine mr. elf's credibility, not that he isn't doing an excellent job of that himself.
The emails Rudy has posted here are legitimate, and verbatim copies of the ones I received yesterday, so, contrary to what mr. elf is seemingly so desperate to have people believe, they are not 'imagined', and people should believe what Rudy 'is typing' because it is not 'rubbish', it is the truth.
mr. elf then states that 'there was not a single reply by any member', which, again, is false. I sent a lengthy response to the Audiogon dispute resolution forum yesterday, as I believe several others did as well. I was aware of this scam from its inception and commented on Rudy's behalf because of that. I have known Rudy for quite a while, and know him to be an honest person. A little excited at this point, but who in his position would not be? Rudy was scammed and is angry. Angry for getting taken, and angry that, with Audiogon's help, mr. elf is seemingly going to get away with it. At this point, though Rudy would like to get his money back, he is mainly trying to alert other people in the community of what happened so they do not get scammed by mr. elf as well. The fact that Audiogon has not allowed the responses of those who were aware of what happened to verify Rudy's account is unfortunate. They are in essence protecting the scammer.
Here's the summary of what would seem to be the scam:
Rudy sees an unnaturally good deal for a pair of Audience cables on Audiogon and sends mr. elf $861.
No shipment ever arrives. This is the truth, to which anyone at his place of work can attest after listening to him pester the letter carrier day after day.
OK, could have gotten lost in the mail or delayed. Our first clue that something is not as it should be is mr. elf's continued insistence that the package was delivered to Rudy and he can prove it because he has a 'delivery confirmation number' that he keeps flashing all about as if it were not meaningless. As anyone who has ever learned to regret trusting the Postal Service knows, a 'delivery confirmation' designation does not provide any tracking as reasonable people understand tracking. It is not proof that something was delivered to Rudy, or to Rudy's address.
Although we do not all do it, we do all know that it is the responsibility of the seller to see that the purchased item makes it safely into the hands of the purchaser, this includes proper packaging, insurance, and, if you are smart, tracking. If the package does not arrive undamaged, it is not the buyer's fault and the buyer cannot legitimately be asked to share the pain. From a legal standpoint this is probably the bottom line.
But, mr. elf hammers out a deal with Rudy wherein Rudy will accept some of his off brand cables plus $400 in money orders. This time mr. elf sends Rudy the elf cables, and nothing else. Then conveniently claims that he didn't use money orders as had been agreed on, but sent $400 cash in the package instead. But this time he uses FedEx and the package can be tracked to prove he sent something. So, mr. elf claims that Rudy is lying about not receiving the cash. Of course! This should probably be the second red flag to anyone who is paying attention. You are in a heated dispute with someone revolving around claims that they did not receive something you sent earlier, so you send them a package containing not money orders for which you have a receipt, but cash! I don't think so.
Up to this point, one could fairly believe that, perhaps, just perhaps, mr. elf was telling the truth and that he had originally sent Rudy a pair of underpriced Audience cables just as he claimed, and that they mysteriously vanished. It happens. Not often, but it happens, especially if the seller is careless enough to send something without insurance or tracking.
(Though Rudy had noticed, and the alleged moderators at Audiogon might have been able to verify, that, of all the ads which mr. elf had on Audiogon, the only ad which did not have a picture of the goods to be sold, was the ad for the Audience cables). Maybe there was a reason he could not take a picture of cables he did not have. Or could have been just a strange coincidence.
What would make a serious person begin to doubt mr. elf's version of reality was that Rudy checked mr. elf's feedback and found a person who had also purchased an item from mr. elf, which had mysteriously disappeared in transit and, coincidence upon coincidence, this person had also been talked into taking elf cables instead.
All that lightning in one place, how odd that is.
So, Audiogon is not policing the system for scammers to the extent that members might rightfully expect.
Rudy is not going to be made whole here, and he knows it. All he is trying to do is to alert people to what seems to go on occasionally when dealing with mr. elf, who, to be fair, has some satisfied customers as well. Caveat emptor, as always.
No one is in a position to prove anything for either side beyond a shadow of a doubt. My main intent was to point out that a few of the things that mr. elf had posted here regarding whether or not anyone had posted a response to the dispute on Audiogon were factually inaccurate, and to provide some context to the nature of the original dispute, which the moderators at Audiogon have unadvisedly chosen to bury.
OK everybody ...go to Audiogon and look up the dipute beween Rudolffzigray and audiophile36 and tell me if you see any post to the dispute.
you know that they pulled any input by anyone other then you and Rudy
Below is the email that Audiogon sent me regarding this matter.
Flag this messageAudiogon [DRP-1244759819] Rudolffzigray v Audiophile36: RESOLUTION POSTEDMonday, June 15, 2009 5:39 PM
From: "Disputes@AudiogoN" Disputes@AudiogoN Add sender to ContactsTo: ernestfarley@att Rudolffzigray and Audiophile36,
Audiogon has considered your dispute:
Requested by: Rudolffzigray
Response by: Audiophile36
Transaction: Audience 24e speaker cables 10' pair
Complaint: Other transaction related problem
After careful consideration of all available facts,
Audiogon has arrived at a Resolution of your Dispute.
RESOLUTION AS RECORDED IN BOTH ACCOUNTS:
==
We sent this dispute to the forums for member input.
Unfortunately, we found a serious irregularity concerning the input to this thread.
Due to this irregularity we will be canceling this dispute.
Rudolffzigray and Audiophile36 will need to seek a remedy to this situation outside of Audiogon.
The only action which Audiogon considers appropriate in this dispute is to remove any negative feedback which either or both parties have left or are contemplating leaving in the other parties file. These negative feedbacks will be removed immediately.
Audiogon Dispute staff
==
Please note that Audiogon's decisions are final. Both parties were afforded considerable resources in an effort to resolve this dispute. We expect that one or both parties will not be happy with our decision. Unfortunately, we are not able to consider any further "appeals" to Audiogon's final resolution. At this time, Audiogon staff will proceed with any actions prescribed above, and then consider this matter closed.
CPK I assume you have first hand knowledge of what happened to those mystery posts on Audiogon?Actually no posts were ever posted a post has to be approved by the moderators before it is posted...again why would Audiogon remove a post that they approved?
CPK you sell cables on audiogon,so you know the rules of the site.
Everyone else without an agenda please see the link
I have first hand knowledge of Audiogon's practices and resolution of conflict and allowing a spade to be called a spade is not their strong suit; again RAL comes to mind. Brad ripped off a number of people and didn't have the negative feedback to reflect that, he finally got booted but only after he had done a significant amount of damage.Joe's post below is explanation for the lack of posting, you have a better explanation why they closed the posting (?) because it wasn't because no one sent in a post or the Rudy lost as you claim in one of your first posts on this thread.
Again the more you post the worse you look…
Thanks for the clarification..
if there was a problem with thread troll boy. There was a problem with the input. Audiogon should of still, let it play out. poor judgement.
Audiogon can smell your bullshit Rudy.
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