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In Reply to: RE: Sound quality or sound quantity? posted by RGA on December 14, 2021 at 19:01:24
"the preamplifier is more important to the sound quality than the power amps. Get a really good preamplifier that you love."
You don't need an active preamp except for vinyl based systems. DACs are rated for a standard 2v output which is what is required to drive a standard amplifier to full output.
Why would you ever want to add un unneeded active stage which just gives you more gain that then has to be attenuated, all of which compromises the signal? A stepped attenuator or TVC sure, but these are passive.
If it's tone and timbre you are after, then get that right in the amplifier itself. Too many people think that "adding a tube" as a preamp gives you "that tube sound". If you want "tube sound" get a tube amplifier. Or use a DAC with a tube output stage.
Preamps have a long history but that's what it is in 2021 - history.
Follow Ups:
It is easy; the momo-blocks do not have the gain by themselves. The linestage has only jus' enough plus a little. It drives the low-ish input stage resistor 'cause that sounds more natural. Lower is better until it can't be driven.
Also, having multiple volume controls is a PITA I no longer feal like dealing with... :)
cheers,
Douglas
Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world...but thou art standing where I am about to shoot.
I'd agree if you use primarily analog sources......
If you primarily use digital sources, the pre will knock down some RFI..... Each person's situation is different..... Like anything else, one should try it, before committing to it.
Three stages makes all DHT easier. To some, all DHT is better.
In a perfect world, agreed.
The best is STILL a TVC connected to an superb gain device... ie transformer coupled 8608. There is no argument a TVC is the finest approach to a volume control, BUT there is still a loss of punch/snap/attack in a TVC with zero gain. I have used many too many configurations with a TVC and no gain. Whether 2 volts or .5. there is a loss... a missing element in the compleat audio experience. You are welcome to disagree... and you know why? Because we all hear differently, moreover if we just stay with numbers; distortion is 10 times greater in any dome or cone vs Horns and most panels. Does this mean some people LIKE certain speaker distortion? Err, correct. And yet I respect the fact many LIKE that. The proof is most listen through cones and domes and argue over distortion in tube amps when the room is the most important factor. Room, Speaker, Pre-amplifier, amp... in that order. Art Dudley heard what I heard and I do not agree with a lot of Art's views. A line source may be the best approach to replicate full on Symphonic bombast. A line source panel is what Arnold Nudell built for himself throughout his engineering career... a devout Symphony lover. Horses of Courses?, You bet.
I miss elements of my Quads despite the Fuzz I heard.
I miss my Magnepan Tympany 1D's for that outstanding lower midrange upper bass punch that has never been equaled. JBl 4315's come close.
Everything is a compromise. Everything crashes by design as my aural memory is distorted by TIME. Some of us can actually hear the signal re-inserted timing delay utilized via global feedback. Many cannot.
That is fine.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Cleantimes I agree with your statement. "A TVC is the finest approach to a volume control, BUT there is still a loss of punch/snap/attack in a TVC." I'm on my fourth passive now. I rebuilt a Bent Audio S&B passive because I thought it would be able to get past that loss. It didn't. When re-wired as an auto-former, it did. I think you would enjoy hearing a good auto-former volume control. You can use one as a replacement for a pot if the equipment has the space.
McIntosh knew what they were doing all those years ago with there SS amps. I am currently restoring am MX 110 to the "9's" ... mostly polystyrene and polycarbonate caps as there is NO ROOM to add any exotics, although I have replaced 4 electrolytics with film. I digress... I currently use an ARC Reference I {better than the 2/3/5 to me} and it has 6 db IC gain ... 12 db XLR and is adequate. IN my opinion, all CD players and streamers should come with a gain control {a good auto-former is not cheap and I don't expect mainstream audio to man up} to even out all the crap that these guys design. Your suggestion has merit and I will need to ponder a design... I have only built a multitude of amplifiers and never built what you have stated. I have pondered an 8608 direct coupled to a TVC however.
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Edits: 12/22/21
"the preamplifier is more important to the sound quality than the power amps. Get a really good preamplifier that you love."
For line level, a preamp is not needed unless you want to experiment with separate power stage only amplifiers.
DT667
My main listening is vinyl. Regardless, I never said one had to choose a tube-based preamp just to find whatever his favourite happens to be - passive, active, some way to control the volume etc that's up to him.
don't assume a perfect signal in the first place. People don't listen to perfect mastering's and recordings. Absolute recordings are pitifully rare. And perfect systems? There's always some kind of objection or criticism from someone whether it's a system or a live performance. If you want reference go to live events and try not be obsessed with obtaining perfection, just try to enjoy it or get rid of it. The industry just loves it when you are "upgrading". There are plenty of rather great components nowadays.
This is not directed at you, I'm waking up this morning
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