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a suggestion that aural memory is enduring in experts

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I watched the jj video on YouTube "What does accurate even mean?" (see link) It reminded me of what he used to say on the Usenet forum dedicated to audio 24 years ago. (rec.music.audio? don't remember the forum name)

He mentions that aural memory is only a few hundred milliseconds long. That's surprising to those of us who believe we can hear differences between components when auditioned minutes, hours, or days apart.

I have an informal argument that aural memory can last that long in musicians or musical instrument designers, and probably in other experts such as audio engineers, experienced audiophiles, etc.

First, we observe that musicians or musical instruments designers are honing their sound. They often have a unique, recognizable sound, and it's often of very high quality.

Next we observe that it takes a long time to develop that sound. Years of daily practice and experimentation. What are they doing during that time? I suggest they are "navigating"... that is, through past experimentation, they have some concepts of sound they like, and they are trying to move closer and closer to an image of what they would like to sound like in the future.

I observe that to "navigate" somewhere requires that you be able to determine where you are at this moment. So, imagine that every morning, Yo-yo Ma gets up and starts practicing. Because aural memory only lasts a couple hundred milliseconds, he has no idea where he left off the night before, right? He has no image of the sound he'd like to produce today. And if he does something that sounds better today than it did yesterday, he has no idea, because of course he can't remember what he sounded like yesterday.

As this is an obvious absurdity, we conclude that he does have an enduring memory of his sound and that he can make fine distinctions in sound even in practice sessions that are days apart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=MjAiR3szSKI&t=36 (Open in New Window)

Follow Ups:

Certain aspects of the sound are more memorable than others. - Geoffkait 04:40:00 07/05/24 (0)
Focus on realism, dynamic range and resolution, you'll be OK. We can remember entire scenes from movies and books in great detail so there's no reason aural memory can't be very good, too. Generalize listening results. E.g., overly compressed, two dimensional, thin, metallic, generic, boring, synthetic, like papier-mache. You know it's not cheating to keep a log. Remember the little engine that could. I think I can, I think I can...

Edits: 07/05/24 07/05/24 07/05/24 07/05/24
But would WE be able to tell his Original Cello from the Carbon Fiber Cello he advertises? - oldmkvi 14:51:17 05/15/24 (2)
That's the hard part!
- RE: But would WE be able to tell his Original Cello from the Carbon Fiber Cello he advertises? ... - andyr 00:56:08 08/27/24 (1)
  I have a CD of a female Canadian(?) cellist playing some of the Bach Cello Suites on 3 different celli:
  * a baroque cello
  * a standard 20th C cello
  * and a CF cello.
  I can certainly hear that these cellos sound different (but I can't decide which one I prefer! :-)) ).
  But stopping a track and then selecting another, for comparison ... certainly takes longer than a few hundred milliseconds.
  
  Edits: 08/27/24
  - RE: But would WE be able to tell his Original Cello from the Carbon Fiber Cello he advertises? ... - Geoffkait 04:48:34 08/27/24 (0)
    Same goes for vintage violins - Amati, Strad, Guarneri. They all sound different but they all sound great.
Test it - 13th Duke of Wymbourne 00:15:55 04/20/24 (0)
I think it likely that how we make those comparisons is greatly biased by how we were feeling then, how we are feeling now and how we think we were feeling back then. Audiophiles like to believe they can can differentiate things because that is their superpower that makes them what they are - look on any forum - all forums - and it is all about how people 'feel' about things. And everyone feels strongly about their experiences but few can really prove what they claim. Now that is fine for people enjoying a non-quantifiable hobby and though I'd like to see some people's dubious claims put to the test, it is probably better not to as knowledge usually doesn't lead to happiness.
I would love to see reviewers tested though:)
As for musicians, I don't think it matters what their aural memories are - as long as they play the right notes, in the right order influenced by how they feel today. And is Yo-Yo Ma really getting better?

Edits: 04/20/24

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