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I'm not in the market, but this new streamer from FiiO looks appetizing (link below). It's $99 shipped, at least until the next wave of tariffs kicks in. No DAC included, but it does have USB output, which for me is the fatal flaw of the WiiM products. Roon Ready, or will be soon (hard to tell exactly). Apparently they are still working on DLNA but are offering a Beta firmware rollout on demand.
Based on past experience I don't recommend buying the first generation of anything, but at that price it's tempting.
. . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .
Follow Ups:
It seems like if you don't use Roon or Apple, you are out of luck?
For example, I am streaming Amazon Music from Windows PC..
I could be wrong but unlike many other streamers the FiiO SR11 doesn't appear to include any internal support (Apps) for any music streaming services. It looks like all streaming music must be 'sent to' the SR11 through an App on your phone, tablet, or possibly a PC/Mac. So it is pretty bare bones in that regard.On the other hand, it looks like an ideal setup as a Roon streamer. If you run Roon on your NAS/PC/Mac the SR11 can act as Roon end-point (streamer) and anything in your Roon Library can be streamed to it..... including streaming services that you are connected to via Roon (Qobuz & Tidal for example).
I like that that the FiiO SR11 is a basic streamer without its own DAC which means easy hookup to any external USB DAC of your choice. IMHO the DAC makes a significant difference is sound quality - the streamer itself very little.
Edits: 06/18/24 06/18/24 06/18/24 06/18/24
Lots of 'back scratching' seems to be going on here.
But, it does not direct stream from Tidal, Spotify, or Qobuz. Maybe it will with later updates. Also, any Airplay source is downgraded to 44.1kz / 16bit PCM. As it is right now, it's a no go form me.
Edits: 06/10/24
Out of curiosity I asked Fiio support about direct Qobuz support. This is their response: "Hi, we have contacted streaming media suppliers such as TIDAL, SPOTIFY, QOBUZ, and they have stopped opening API interfaces to third parties. So we cannot directly integrate them into SR11, but users can still use these music apps on their phones through AIRPLAY or DLNA and deliver audio to SR11."
nt
they are NOT based upon Android phones like the many "Walkie Talkie" models.
I use Roon with Qobuz, and endpoints are hardwired, so those are not shortcomings for me, but there you go. Judging from the responses to an earlier post of mine (linked), consensus among the geniuses in this forum is that any improvement over 16/44 is an illusion. Not sure I buy that, but there seem to be plenty of opinions and factoids to support both sides.I'm happy with my current setup, which uses a Sonore microRendu that I bought used at a great price. Ethernet in; USB out; minimal web-based UI; Roon-ready; that's everything I need. And it's native DSD capable, which has been fun for experimenting. But if it ever dies I like to keep abreast of the options, which seem to be growing rapidly.
Do you know of a plug and play single box streamer that will do the things you describe and is Roon-ready with USB output? For <$100, like the FiiO? Or <$200, what the mRendu cost me? Or any price?
. . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .
Edits: 06/10/24
A Raspberry Pi #4 running PiCorePlayer will do everything you mentioned. It is Plug and Play after the initial setup, which takes an hour or two with a bit of help from Videos, forums or me.
And it will do this for under $100. I have never had any urge to move to another streamer.
Agreed, the RPi 4B looks like the best option right now, and as a Roon user I would run RoPieee to go even simpler than PCP. I think the days of sub-$100 Pis are gone once you figure in a case, SD card, fan, and PSU. It is still economical but others are catching up quickly. However, it doesn't meet my definition of plug and play. It ships as a box of loose parts, assembly required.For comparison, here's what is required with the Rendu from the moment it reaches your door:
1. Unbox it.
2. Plug in LAN, DAC and PSU. No tools required.
3. From any device on the LAN (wired or wireless), browse to sonicorbiter.com, select the unit, and make sure it is set to Roon Ready, the default (or DLNA or whatever server you're using), then reset. You only have to do this once. No apps to download; no monitor, keyboard or mouse required.
4. Start Roon and enable the Rendu. Also a one-time step.
5. Select it as the Roon endpoint (if you have more than one).
6. Play music.A similar flowchart for RPi would have 10x that many steps. I'm sure I could figure it out, and have fun doing it, but that's not the same as plug and play.
. . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .
Edits: 06/10/24
I'm sure I could figure it out, and have fun doing it, but that's not the same as plug and play.As one who owns both an ultraRendu and a pair of RPis, I can verify that the latter is anything but plug and play. It most certainly involves spending time with techie geek stuff that many would not suffer. Unlike the instant device recognition via Sonicorbiter.com, you must choose a tool to determine the IP address in order to converse with it. Assembly of board into case, inserting microSD card and attaching power supply, however, is really nothing.
The trick is all about configuration especially since you must explicitly tell it what DAC you're using. If you don't choose the right answer it simply won't work. One of mine is connected via WiFi which involves another layer of complexity in that you must first get it running hardwired and later configure WiFi. Expect to reboot the unit at least 6-8 times during the configuration before it is operable. And since it is a general purpose device, I've gone to the trouble to disable a lot of unnecessary stuff via commands within the config.txt file such as turning off LEDs, disabling internal audio, HDMI, declocking processor and GPU for the best results. Don't skimp using the five buck SMPS. I use either a battery or a linear via a starquad DC cord.
Having said all of that, once you invest an hour or two you've got an incredibly cost effective solution. Mine are not as transparent as the Sonore product but are darn close. One is used in garage system while the other serves as backup device.
Edits: 06/11/24
When I got my first Pi I had it up and running in half an hour, unboxing included, and I had zero previous experience with them. I put Volumio on it which is a complete build including OS and it boots directly to it. Connecting to it is easy as it exposes itself as a wifi endpoint and you connect to it, set it up to see your home network and password, reboot and go. It shows up after that as a DLNA endpoint, an Airplay endpoint and has its own interface too. My kids knew immediately how to connect to it from their phones with Spotify as it showed up as a speaker selection. I myself used Audirvana on a Mac and it too showed up as a selection through DLNA without any change to AV. That's how I use it today, running AV on three different Macs, and having 3 different Volumio/Pi endpoints. Any Mac can connect to any endpoint, all over the wifi. The only problem is forgetting to switch speaker output and it'll start playing in the kitchen when I'm in the living room.It did help that I had the image already downloaded on my Mac and burnt to an SD card, but that didn't take long either. Unfortunately Volumio made it more difficult with their later version, but maybe they've fixed that. I'm pretty sure Volumio is one guy working from Florence, Italy, so I give him some slack.
Plug and play? No, but really easy to setup this way. No Linux required.
Edits: 06/13/24
It all depends on what you want to do with your Rpi. I prefer PiCorePlayer, as I use the features of PcP that are not found in any other Rpi Software.
Roon, for the most part, sets itself up. Install it, it automagically finds your music, it finds album art, it finds your DAC, it finds your network endpoints, and it plays music. You can dig deeper with various option settings if you want to but you don't have to.
Edits: 06/18/24
Try it on a raspberry Pi. It's simpler and faster. Not that I like it. It's too simple and lacks features.
I just said it was simpler to install and get running.
But based on reports that it's not all that reliable I'm not too interested. I'd go PcP before Volumio but I'm happy with Roon.
It costs nothing to try. I try them all.... If you're bored sometime.I never thought that Volumio would be my Main software. I try most all of the streaming software for non serious Audio people..... Volumio is free, however they charge you for their Qobuz interface. (Which is a non go for me) Unlike the WiiM stuff. Today I recommend the WiiM Mini and WiiM Amp for casual users. PiCorePlayer for Serious ones.
Edits: 06/18/24
I'm eyeing that brand new WiiM streamer with the color LCD screen just for grins. I think it releases and ships in a few weeks and at just over $300 USD it might be fun to play with - for the screen if nothing else.
Yes, I saw they are coming out with new stuff.... My Friend that just bought a WiiM Amp (Which sounds Damn Good, I might add), is buying another system just like it for his Gulf Coast home. I told him to wait for the New WiiM amp, as he isn't going to install it until this fall. The new Amp is supposed to be better. They didn't opt for a Screen on the WiiM amp. It Probably would take up too much room.
I bought both the WiiM Amp and Loxjie to try out a couple weeks ago, and I kept the Loxjie, as it had more power, and it was needed on the Stand Mount speakers I tried it on. Both Little Amps were outstanding for the Prices. The Loxjie does have a nice little Screen for Bit Rate info.
" It ships as a box of loose parts, assembly required."The Raspberry Pi itself comes in a box with just the Pi - Nothing to assemble. It's a single board computer. No tools required. Where did you get that idea?
As I said... It is plug and Play with an hour or two to install.
I installed one at a Gal's house that doesn't know anything about streaming. It is still running fine after 4 years. It just sits on top of her stereo and she runs it with her ipad. She doesn't touch it.
The raspberry Pi has far less maintenance than someone's home network by far.
Edits: 06/10/24
I'm a bit out of my lane here because I've not yet been able to pull the string, but when I've looked into getting a Raspberry Pi for use as a Roon endpoint in my system, here is what I find to be the entry point:
RPi 4B on Amazon
Looks like a box of loose parts to me.
Are you saying you set your friend up with a raw circuit board just laying around in the living room? That's scary. She must not have kids or pets. Or curious visitors.
. . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .
I don't buy these kits, as there is stuff you don't need for streaming and you sure as hell don't need 8GB of memory, when 1 GB is overkill for streaming with PcP.
And some of the stuff is unneeded.. They want to show you you're getting a lot of stuff for your money. It's picture of the Pi - One board.
It's got a picture of a Fan (Not needed). 3 heat sinks (I don't use them)
A picture of an HDMI cable (Not needed for streaming). A picture of the switch for the power supply. An SD card. Do you see anything that would require a tool?
The pi comes in a box. it's a single board computer. You stuff it in a simple case, and plug in a power supply. A lot like your rendu.
The hour install that I referred to is all software.
Try it sometime, it's not that difficult and I can help you.
. . . you mean Amazon is trying to sell me stuff I don't need? I'm shocked.
Okay, so here's what I'm understanding that I do need:
1. RPi 4B board. The Roon community agrees with you that 1GB is adequate for an endpoint, but for $5 more I'll probably go with the 4GB board just because.
2. Case. As I understand it, if I get the right case, then I don't need a fan or heat sinks. The Flirc case is recommended if it isn't sold out. It's inexpensive and looks good.
3. PSU (wall wart). The on/off switch looks like a convenience. Is there any harm in just unplugging it when I know I won't be using it for a while? That's what I do with the mRendu.
4. Micro SD card. Some of them come with the default Raspbian OS preinstalled. I will be replacing it with RoPieee, but it seems like I should make sure everything works as a baseline before I start tinkering.
5. Micro SD card/USB reader. I think I need one of those. They are cheap and easy to find.
6. Balena Etcher tool. I've used it before. It's a free download.
7. Micro HDMI adapter. I get that it isn't needed for streaming, but don't I need a monitor + keyboard + mouse for initial setup? I can borrow a monitor from myself, but it won't connect to the Pi without an adapter.
What am I missing?
. . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .
Don't worry about heat when streaming from the Raspberry Pi.... So, no need for Fans or Heat Sinks. I have taken extensive Temperature measurements under heavy streaming loads without heat sinks or fans and the Rpi Model 4 stayed well below the 85 Cent Max Temperature. Usually between 50-65 Cent. Maximum.If I am going to shut down my Rpi, I first Shutdown the O/S software that I am running, before I 'pull the plug'. Good idea for any computer you happen to be running.
Otherwise your comments are pretty accurate.
Edits: 06/12/24
I think you have everything covered. Except point 7 the HDMI is totally unnecessary. I've never used it with a 12 years on the Rpies.
There is also an App called "Advanced IP Scanner" which comes in handy for locating the RPi IP Address after you get it going (Used only for Install).
I think I tried ROPieee once, but I am more familiar with PcP. So I may not be that much help with that O/S.
Of course that's a DIY project. More than many want to tackle.
Maybe this one for $399
Edits: 06/10/24
. . . but like all the iFi products, it is so homely . That aside, it looks like a very versatile component. Maybe they will come out with a lower-priced "Nano" unit to compete with WiiM and FiiO.
After doing some reading, the whole Airplay/Airplay2 thing is a mystery to me. Apparently the newer version has a lower transfer bitrate than the older one. Some reviews say it is limited to 16/44 while others say it passes a bit-perfect signal. It seems to vary by manufacturer, and maybe that is intentional: as you pointed out, the specs for the little FiiO streamer clearly say all Airplay is downsampled to 16/44 by design. Can't tell how the iFi streamer handles it. I don't use Airplay, but I'm still interested and curious.
. . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .
The Physical Shape and Price is a good Direction for FiiO to go. Their other products were Butt-Ugly (IMHO) and way over priced for what they did. For $99 you probably can't go wrong..... WiiM was probably eating them alive in the Market.
While it does have a USB output, unlike the WiiM products, it does not appear as a player (Squeezelite) to LMS like the WiiM amp and some other WiiM Streamers.
IIRC, the early gen WiiMs didn't have native Squeezelite capability either but the developers eventually got there with firmware patches. If they think there is a market, they will find a way.
The fact that this thing came out without DLNA/uPnP (Android) tells me that they rushed it out as quickly as they could. As you suggest, WiiM has been eating their lunch. That is scary from the QC perspective. Also, at the moment it is only available through AliExpress, which is another red flag for me. But I'm sure they will get it hooked up with Apos and Amazon soon enough.
I wonder if Logitech and Apple have second thoughts about bailing out of a space that they once owned?
. . . in theory, practice and theory are the same; in practice, they are different . . .
"I wonder if Logitech and Apple have second thoughts about bailing out of a space that they once owned?"
I think Apple bailed out if you consider that the iPod is long gone. On the other hand they have a couple powered speakers that stream.... but many such speakers on the market are capable of streaming. However, I don't think that qualifies them to be called streamer companies. The lines are blurred. Is the iPhone a streamer? Are Android phones streamers? Is my Samsung TV and Sonos soundbar streamers?
Is the iPhone a streamer?
I use my previous 8 to stream XM and Bandcamp in the garage system.
Apple DOES have a music streaming service but they don't make a dedicated streamer like the ones we're seeing in the audio reviews.
I still have two old iPods somewhere (one with tiny spinning disk inside!) but I haven't used them in years.
Yes, I would never buy anything from AliExpress..... I ordered some tubes once, and it took 2 months to 'unravel' the transaction.
Nice. USB out, wifi support and it has an LCD screen. Is it as good as it appears? Will it support Qobuz? Hope so. Thanks for the heads up.
Edits: 06/08/24
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