Posted by jimbill (A) on August 15, 2024 at 12:43:40

In Reply to: RE: Quad 989 vs Magnepan 1.7i posted by TruMusic1 on August 15, 2024 at 12:32:37

I posted over in Martinloganowners.com. My question was to compare Quads to current ML's. This is one of the replies:




Oh boy, maaate... do I get excited when I see this type of question. I've posted numerous aspects on three different forums having owned several iterations of these ESL's. So just to reiterate, in fact, I've posted all about Quads somewhere here, can't find it though.

*Note" when you buy Quad ESL's (any of the newer versions, made in China) they include the Quad book, written by Ken Kessler, 'The Closest Approach.' It's a great book and has the whole Quad history with fantastic photos. Kenny K also did the book on McIntosh 'For the love of music,' another great read, and also the book on ARC.

Anyway, just to summarise:
1. Quads when built back in the 50's to the 80's were all made in England. Under the careful watch of Peter Walker, the ESL legend! These were mainly the ESL57 and ESL63 (owned both versions). They were quite finicky to drive, such that if under-driven, they sound awful. Then if over-driven the panels arc, blue sparks fly off in all directions, causing holes in the mylar and before you can say, Bob's your uncle, poof! Panel failure. So you have to get the "right amplifier" to drive Quads. Now, how the heck do we know what is the right amp? Well, that's a definite point and is a matter of trial and error.
After the late 80' leading upto the 90's, Quad started to accumulate debt. So when PW passed away, his son Ross, was approached by IAG (Int'l Audio Group) based in China. Big bucks and big muscles... so Quad was swallowed in one bite! Now, those newer versions, ESL 988, 989, 2805, 2905, 2910, and 2912's are all made in China, and they're an absolute disaster! I owned all these newer versions and ended up with two major nightmares on both the ESL 2905's and 2912's. I'll touch upon that later.

***in general *** any amplifier (SS or tube) that has excellent power supply design (high current & stable voltages), that can handle the ESL's impedence swings, can and will drive ESL's full range with no issues.

2. Tube Power Amplifiers that I've tried on both Quads and ML's with absolutely no issues: Conrad johnson, Audio Research, VTL, Manley Labs, Quad, Jadis, Cary, Sonic Frontiers, Audio Note- UK and Kondo Audio Note- Japan, Melos, and Leek. The first half of this list were outstanding with Quads, the latter half from Audio Note down were more vintage designs but managed really well.

3. SS power amps: Krell FPB series, Bryston, Mark Levinson, Threshold, Sumo, Jeff Rowland, Class'e, Aragon, and Parasound were the main ones I either sold to other customers or set-up for owner's after having purchased from our dealer network. As you can tell from this extensive list, all these makes incorporate really well designed power supplies, and in these power systems the Output stages can easily handle ESL's. (Of course there were many others that fell short, hence no point listing).

4. The original Quad ESL's 57 were probably the best Quad ESL's ever made to date! They were quite delicate and not very robust but they reproduced some fantastic tunes. The most impressive version of the ESL 57 I've heard, were double-stacked 57's driven by six channels of tube power by ARC amps. That was something else! However, very complex and cumbersome to maintain. Another person who had stacked 57's was the main guy behind SME turn tables & SME arms. You can read all about his stacked Quad system on the Net, it's quite elaborate.

5. The ESL 57's were not very reliable either and if over-driven they would arc instantaneously, even causing the amp to shut down or further damage. So Quad redesigned the 57's with better protection, used fuses, and it could play louder, that was the ESL 63. Even though the ESL 63's could play louder, if over-driven they would still arc and had virtually the same problems.

6. Those were the only two ESL's produced by Quad during the term of PW. After he passed away in the early 90's, Quad stopped producing ESL's for a while, and the IAG group started building conventional speakers. They were ok but nothing close to Quad ESL's, no chance! The IAG group are the company that also own Wharfdale, Quad, Audio Lab and a few others, all coming out of China. (Very poor quality control, although Kenny K says they're great...)

7. So music enthusiasts were waiting for Quad to introduce a new line of ESL's. And so they did! Starting with the ESL 988, 989, 2805, 2905, 2910, and 2912's. Initially, when I had the 988's and 989's, they were quite good upto the point of warranty. Exact same thing happened to both the 2905's and 2912's that I bought between 2010 and 2015. After about two years, buzzing started from the panels, eventually multiple panel failures including two trannies failed as well! Back in the day, when made in England, we NEVER had tranny failures, maybe slight panel issues but never transformers. The Quads use three trannies. One mains tranny and two HT (high tension) trannies which are used to charge both opposing stators. In both my models, both the mains tranny failed. IAG was absolutely hopeless in helping out. And my Quad dealer's reply was, "sorry mate, these things happen when made in China, just buy another pair." What the....??

8. The very last pair of Quad ESL's I purchased were their top of the line ESL 2912's. I spent 22grand on that pair and then another 10grand to fix the damn things, which weren't even fixed by them! So all up, 32grand, damn! I could've bought two pairs of CLX's! At the end, I managed to contact a chap named, John Hall. He's known as the Quad Whisperer in Aus. After a few chats over the phone he knew exactly what was wrong on both pairs. He came over to my place and spent nearly 8hrs fixing, replacing and testing the Quads, and finally when he gave the thumbs up... I promptly sold off both pairs! That was the last Quad ESL I'll ever buy, never again.

9. It was around 2015/16 I purchased the ML Ethos from my current ML dealer. The price of the Ethos was less than half of the Quads! Anyway, the moment I set them up and powered up by my previous CJ tube gear, I started to cry! Even the wifey was upset and wondering what on earth is going on .. I simply replied, I've been ripped off by the new Quad group. The ML Ethos was on another dimension compared to Quads, it's not even funny. In fact, it's quite sad! The only thing good about Quad now, is Ken Kessler's book!

10. Now I own CLX's and the rest is history!

So, to answer your question, 13A's compared to Quads... there's no comparison, hell no!
ML electrostats, whether hybrid or full range, are and will always be superior to any Quad ESL's by far! I've added a pic of that mains tranny that failed twice in both pairs. It's like a toy! This kind of cheapo parts are not found anywhere near ML's, no chance Charlie! Just open up any ML speakers and have a look for yourself and you'll notice the high quality parts straight away! Even their lower entry-level series still has quality and good grade parts, nothing's compromised, and this very factor is what makes all the difference in ML stats.

Now that deserves a mighty WOOF!!!
Cheers, RJ