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70.16.220.102
In Reply to: RE: One sheet 4x8 disasters (lessons learned today at the saw) posted by kenpeter on September 06, 2007 at 19:03:37
Lesson: Never have the yard cut panels to the finished size. Have them cut small enough to get them home, but do the final trimming yourself.
Follow Ups:
That would be swell, but all I got is a router.
I suppose its possible to do everything with just
that one tool, but my kerfs are even wider than
Depot's saw.My K15 is only gonna be 17.75 inches deep unless
I make the new replacement klams to overlap the
front and side edges...I allready deviated from the norm by cutting my
sides only 31.5 inches tall, widening top and
bottoms to fill the missing corners. Only way
I could figure for it ALL to fit on ONE sheet.
No extra pieces till I went and butchered the
one oddball panel that was to be my klams...No matter, those bits of wood will become router
templates for the speaker holes. I am jammin a
pair of 10inch 16ohm EVM10 lookalikes (possibly
surplus oem stock) and a cast aluminum bullet
tweeter between. The tweeter is rated at 95db.
I may mount it behind the baffle and abuse the
router to extend the flare a bit...I am sticking to K15 internal dimensions close
as possible, and making the baffle removable in
case I have to salvage this with a more normal
choice of loudspeaker. For now just using the
EVM10s I have on hand.Pics of the mystery 16ohm EV driver and related
experiments over in the 2x10 Karlson thread.
K15 probably should be cut out for a 15" and use a 10" adaptor board
K15 size is sufficient for some 18" with some tradeoffs.
the rear lolpass shelf has the thickest padding - Drenner's pads are larger than what Karlson specified in the 1954 article.
12" driver in K15
surviving Western - Electric 728 at Japanese site
Page One
Page Two
Page Three
Page four
Sheet Cut
Taper Cut
Drenner Plan in negative
I don't plan one driver in the middle, But two side by side
with a tweeter inbetween (and slightly above), so an adaptor
over a 15" hole isn't going to fit. I will need an entirely
removable replaceable baffle if I am to assure I can put a
beta15cx or other reasonably matched driver in there later...
Karlson's internals are big enough to acccomodate the pair
of EVM10's. Though I might want to damp the sides where I
will be extremely close. Or not, this could just as easily
end up for musical instrument (I play bass) and sometimes
a reflective interior sounds nice in that application.
I do plan to varnish the front koupler, as Karlson himself
preferred that part of the enclosure be reflective. It is
somewhat important my project behave internally just like
the original (when baffled with a proper coaxial 15).
Garauntees an elegant exit strategy if my experiment goes
too far off in the weeds.
most of my basses are metalnecks - two of thsoe tens in parallel should be pretty sensitive. I'd like to know more about htat 8-stack of PA k's which are ~ c(k)ubical
I hope the front chamber extends all the way to the back of the box.
How else to get the K-TL long enough to transform the impedance?
Otherwise its just a detuned 4th order box... I sorta doubt that,
but you never know..
without details we can't tell what innards those have - I made a one-sheet sealed rear chamber (~3 cubic foot) klam for 18" with baffle not much larger than the driver and it sounded pretty good, added a bit of reverb and subjective dynamics were improved vs direct radiator.z-transformation is supposely done by the aperture's variable leakage
wish k-builder Carl would give data to support his thoughts that longer k-chamber go lower and smoother - - -if they boil down to BP-like, then tuning the "front" real low would de-tune the passband.
Complete with slitting motor for a clean underside too
Yes...if you can afford it, but what about the horns in the wood shop?
Do you run movies at night...for the homies? :)
Later
D
The VOTTs are for my enjoyment while working.
I need to take a new picture, as that one was taken the day I moved the saw in. The place is a bit more put together at the moment.
And I was being very facetious with the post anyway. I had planned on getting a cabinet business going and leased the space and did many improvements, only to have a different opportunity take my time. Now I just try to do only enough to pay the bills there without taking too much of my spare time. It is a great place to play.
eso
I drooled all over mine and shorted it out.
Jim N
I want that! Sorry about the Home Depot situation. I know it well myself!
I have a really good belt sander that smooths everything out.
I can't afford the room, much less the machine.
This is strictly a driveway project.
Get a halfway decent circular saw and build or buy a sawguide. While tablesaws are nice there is nothing they can do that a circular saw can't with the right accessories. I purposely built a couple of my project prototypes with only a circular saw just to be sure it could be done. It took longer than with a tablesaw, but there was no sacrifice in accuracy.
a decent router.
For a guide, I use aluminum angle [or rec tube] and good C clamps....for both.
Later
D
Mitering with wood rasp and pull saw is slow.
Fortunately the K15 doesn't have many miters.
Not even starting any horn sub project until
I have a better way to miter with accuracy.
Try to borrow a circular saw for when I do.
Or perhaps I can find a used one at pawn if
its not too beat up.
K
You're doing this project with a hand saw!? I salute you! I would'nt want to arm wrestle you for beers following completion of two cabs ; ) Anyway, same advice as above. You're wasting your time with a dull hand saw, a sharp blade will cut 5 times faster than what some would consider "not that sharp, but useable". You can cut miters with a hand saw (my grandfather did) with a blade guide clamped to both sides of the panel, but I guarantee you will loose interest very quickly with a dull hand saw. Don't even consider a used circular saw which the seller won't let you plug in and run. If the bearings sound sloppy, or the motor is spiting fire, don't buy it.
You'll have forearms like Popeye when you're done!
Paul
I think there are only 4 unavoidable miters... 21 inches apiece.
I am not doing any other cuts with the pull saw. I have a router
and a 1/4 inch carbide bit for making straight cuts. Course I do
have to clamp a straight edge to the wood to use for a guide.
I may or may not have 45 and 30 deg router bits somewhere. Need
to dig around and find that set. Those are the only angles I am
needing.
Could build the K15 without any miters if I had a can of bondo.
But I didn't spend extra for birtch to go and slop bondo on it.
If it takes some extra hand labor, thats fine...
At the very least, if you're doing this on a budget, you should be able to get a cheap skil circular saw at walmart or HD for $30 or less assuming you have the space to use it. Mine's lasted for the past 5 years.
Build an even cheaper sawboard such as this http://members.aol.com/woodmiser1/sawbd.htm and you should be good to go for most purposes (at least that's what I use for all my projects). HD usually has some waste cuts of masonite and pine which you should be able to pick up for not much. If you can spare $15 more now, or in the future, consider getting a reasonably better blade such as this one that I use http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00008WQ2H/ref=sr_1_olp_2/102-9143726-9099304?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1189261134&sr=1-2
An alternative solution for trimming boards to identical dimensions is to align the boards and then use your router and a flush trim / template bit on them.
ot - how do you like table tuba vs other horn and sub which are ~30Hz?- like to see outdoors harmonic distortion with various woofer
Hi Freddy,
Well, it goes LOW and LOUD, even positioned in 1/4 space, for a 11 x 14 room, .. watching war of the worlds where the alien thingy emerges, .. the whole room was creaking and shaking with the sub-30Hz low freq. effects even after i turned the sub way down. I still need to add another brace (one mouth brace shifted during glue up and is currently stuck askew) .My other horn sub (auto-tuba) had a bit more "punch" but less going on below 35Hz . It was also somewhat less efficient, running with the same 8" driver. Better for SOME music, as the TT can sometimes overload MY room with bass and get a bit boomy (still need to find a plate amp and play with crossover settings to counteract it's rising response, as I only have the lousy 100Hz on my HT receiver for now). For HT though, NO contest at all. The TT is downright scary.
Hope that helps
good - did you figure a way to make driver access and possible swapping easy? -- bought file from Bill but my drive crashed and cutter never cuts.
which 8" are you using? one 8" tested by JL in AT seemed to have high HD but I'm not sure if he did the test right
this type horn should be able to be made wider for some larger driver and work well - - anyone try a TT12?
I used the recommended el cheapo MCM 2421 ( http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?catalog_name=MCMProducts&category_name=1000210&product_id=55-2421 )with a decent sized magnet. I didn't bother making the adapter plate to fit HL10a because I don't need the output. I'm not sure if a 12" can be shoehorned into the driver cavity.
Someday, I MIGHT build a tapped horn if I'm convinced that my shiva 12" will work in it.
what thickess plywood did you use? - can the driver be removed easily or is it entombed? - - how is it on pipe and electric organ? I don't play those genre loud- - before I lost Bill's TT pdf, I gave TT a whirl on AJ-Horn - does it look much like my sim up to 200Hz? is the little MCM pretty linear? (I have USC1 parked as too much HD for me -HD "thickens" timbre)
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