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just as the title says, and thanks for the help.
I was enthused about a pair of earbuds at the eighty dollar price point, to upgrade the more modest stuff I now cycle through , until the connector wires fail.
I just wanted a better sound when I use my laptop, using a non amplified transmission line.
I have been ok using a JVC something with an XX molded into the plastic, explosive , or something like that is the name , @ around the $20 price point. They were pitched as durable on the box, which triggered my purchase, and was pleased with the sound, delivered with a slight bass boast, without high note shiver, unobtrusive and pleasant with a little clip on radio I also use
Saw shure IEM ear buds advertised and figured that would be a simple solution. I have always liked the shure sound and products, and the product was well reviewed by customers as an established and well regarded product, if not cutting edge.
Then I checked and found that IEM was short for inner ear monitor, and was designed for a stage performance, blocking outside sound, a deal breaker of a feature. I don't want to be isolated from outside noise.
And, according to judged durability , might use them when I bike ride, where the loss of a relatively inexpensive item like I now use ($20) after many miles of enjoyment, is somewhat acceptable. sound isolation would be a poor choice where I ride, and I ride on the sidewalks whenever possible, with the very few encountered pedestrians given the right of way always.
The shure product had replaceable wires, which had me considering possible outside active use for an $80 product with thin wires.
I would welcome any advice that might help form my buying decision. If I were to jump in at a higher price point, I would get headphones and a bigger driver, the good stuff that needs a dedicated amp. I still need to upgrade my primary system amp, so it's earbud city for me.
Thank in advance. I know miniaturization can get costly, so can flex the budget a bit, for something exceptional , but don't want to spend a lot of money on tiny little drivers.
Follow Ups:
ear canals are different shapes. some earbuds will fit perfectly for some people and be worthless for others.
And when it comes to earbuts, fit is very important to the overall resulting sound quality
Don't wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.
Mark Twain
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Most earbuds don't fit my ears very well and they're rather uncomfortable. However, after discovering IEM earphones, the problem was solved. All the IEM earphones I now own came with different size rubber ear tips so I could easily find the size that fits my ear canal perfectly. For me, IEM earphones are the solution to the earbud problem and they're much more comfortable than earbuds. Furthermore, IEM earphones isolate the listener from external noise quite effectively.
I'm sure there are those who prefer earbuds to IEM earphones, but for me, IEM earphones are the better fit.
Happy listening!
John Elison
the tin T2 hase smooth response from the deepest lows to the highs. the pliable braided wire is wonderful.
...regards...tr
thanks for the suggestion, but after checking a few of many options, decided to simplify my buying process by eliminating Chinese products and any possibility of slave labor used in any part of creating my simple enjoyment.
I purchased an English set, made of non toxic biocompatible polymer, 3d printed by robot warm pheasant , assisted by human tom c. , $300 bucks.
they work well, exploiting an acoustic labyrinth that goes deeper into the ear than usual, driven by a single driver .
all my previous earphones were mass market jvc of Panasonic in the twenty dollar range, that I liked pretty well, so I really have no comparable high price point merchandise from which to form a comparison, but they do sound very "hi fi" and allow me to investigate the sonic limits of the C crane pocket radio I often use, along with an apple laptop. I require an adaptor to use in my main set up, which is in a misplaced box of unused small parts I haven't seen for awhile. this purchase was never intended for primary listening, but I will check them out from a better source, once I find the adaptor, I think I have a least two, and although not costly, it would be wasteful to buy more.
Slave Labour note.
I lived in Wenzhou, China for a year. This city is a manufacturing one. I get the idea of avoiding slave labour (or the Communist government) but please not that while the wages are very low compared to the US - the cost of living is also very low compared to the US. So they may actually live better on their wage than people in the US making $7.25 which is the Minimum wage in the US (and has been since 2009).I could buy a tummy-filling breakfast of 2 large Pork and Cabbage BAO for $0.50. Chinese Minimum wage is around $2-$2.50 US depending on the region.
Moreover, not buying from China generally only hurts the working poor over there. $2 sucks but it's better than being out of work because they have fewer safety nets than western countries.
It's tough because I don't want to support businesses that exploit workers - but then I also avoid plenty of American companies for the same reasons as well as companies that go against my ethical and political values.
I'll never buy from The Home Depot for example.
Edits: 10/13/22
> I'll never buy from The Home Depot for example.
I'm curious what's wrong with The Home Depot. I haven't shopped there in many years because Lowe's is closer to my home, but I didn't know there was a problem with The Home Depot.
I hope there's not a problem with Lowe's. They always give me a 10% military discount. ;-)
Thanks!
John Elison
I guess I should start with a thank you to all who offered help , and were also unintentional misled by my price restriction, which vanished under my enthusiasm for new stuff I really don't need.
Turns out I was almost unable to find almost any earphones not made in china, an essential buying criteria. most don't bother to specify where it is made, probably assuming most know already it comes from the same place as all the other stuff.
removing the price point throttle was the lever that allowed for mission creep about the price to wedge into my buying strategies. Once that constriction was out of the way I found two likely products.
one was a westec American made product, or as stated ," assembled in usa", but it was designed more for musical performance , probably to plug into a small blutooth amplifier , plus it was the bottom of the product line, a situation I try to avoid if possible. I would rather buy the top of a cheap product line than the bottom of an expensive line, for the same money. top of line products get the better laborers and more pride of manufacture, generally .
So I settled on some made in England plugs and a discount code, at much more than I had wanted to pay, but should return a usual performance for the cost, and the cost was significant for the product category.
My first choice was some well reviewed planer driven earphones for less money, but I had been to the third world before, and recognize that, although not supremely prosperous , I am in the fortunate position of not having to squeeze some hapless third world worker just to save a few bucks.
And that is before any political or unregulated manufacturing pollution concerns are added into the buying decisions.
I don't delude myself about the pervasiveness of Chinese manufactured goods. I will probably continue to buy cheap chinese earphones , Panasonic has great sound value and the best comfort, Jvc has a nice bass lift without killing the enjoyment, and I would hope that such big companies have some control over manufacturing outsourcing , but don't know.
I am more comfortable sending $20 bucks to china rather than hundreds, but don't expect miracles, knowing slave labor is a reality in America also, and it's not just for license plates anymore.
I also swallowed hard on spending almost three hundred bills for an earphone that included a phone control, a feature I consider a ribbon of shame for an audio hobbyist, and manage to avoid on the cheap stuff. a discount code saved me some money. while exposing the vastly inflated price , it allowed for the inclusion of hearing protectors at discount, a product I depend on in an over amplified world, but which often kills some of the musical frequencies , so one needs a selection for different events.
My old one finally died. Bought a newer one and the cords seems more durable and now it came in transparent plastic. Then left it on an airplane when I deborded. Back to Sennheiser headphones.
thanks for the reply. I have adjusted my price limit up to , at most , $250 after some shopping. I also now think a single driver design might be the best approach with my budget.
since I won't be able to hear the things before purchase, I figure putting as much distance between my old price point, and new, will hopefully deliver a positive change I will more easily discern.
not really in love with that concept, because I could add that money in to get some real audiophile headphones at higher price points.
plus my past experience, with <$25 stuff, was that they were all somewhat disposable, the way I care for them. turns out running them through bicycle spokes downhill gives one that noise free, ink black background everyone wants, but nothing else.
now, I have pretty much given up shopping for fidelity, and am just looking for a product that won't have an unknown amount of questionable labor or material practices used in making the product.
It seems I am swimming against a pretty big stream with that ask, obviously it is hard to compete against the labor coasts of slaves, exploitive working conditions , or unregulated manufacturing pollution . It seems there must have been a lot of can't beat them, let's join them , decisions made in the past.
another personal situation is that the higher priced stuff is aimed at a buyer who know what they are doing , a more sophisticated consumer than myself. And I don't want to buy some marginal amplification that would only used to make some cheap earphones , or headphones drive properly. To me marginal amplification, besides being unrewarding every single time you even look at it, is just landfill waiting to happen.
I value your suggestion, my last excursion away from the bottom end was with shure earphones, where I broke , not the wires, the main body.
I bought them because I am a big fan of shure products, and still run the last of a string of carts from them , although now using it with a Japanese tip. of course, all their earphones seem to now be Chinese, but are well received.
As an aside, old guys like me will remember when Schwinn bicycles dominated the american mass market bicycle scene. They were having a tough time competing on price, so decided to cut labor costs and move production to china, which at the time , had significantly lower production costs than now.
the first product was unacceptable for the american market, so they had Schwinn production managers go over and show them how to paint and finish, and make the entire product suitable for the american market.
Now , it is hard to find a Schwinn bike, save for big box store cheap stuff not sold in bike shops, while their Chinese trading partner, Giant bicycles , is occupying the floor space where Schwann once ruled.
I think you're wise to stick with single driver earphones. I've owned four or five FiiO multi-driver earphones and now FiiO quit making them. I'd never seen earphones with four and five drivers and I thought they'd be impressive, especially at their prices. One of them cost $500. However, the high frequencies sounded a bit strident to me.FiiO gave up on the multi-driver earphones in favor if single driver earphones and these new FiiO single driver models are the best I've ever heard. The EM5, FD5, and FD7 are really spectacular. I also own Grado HP-1 and RS-2 in addition to Koss ESP/950 electrostatic headphones, but the FiiO EM5, FD5, and FD7 sound noticeably better to me. The FD7 is the best sounding earphone or headphone I've ever heard.
I'd love to own Stax electrostatic headphones, but I just can't force myself to spend the money. The only model I want is their top-of-the-line, but I'm not willing to spend $10,000. I wish I could borrow a pair to compare with my FiiO FD7. I might be willing to spend $10,000 if they actually sounded significantly better than the $600 FD7 earphones.
Good luck,
John Elison
Edits: 06/04/22
glad to hear I am on the right track with putting a single driver as a buying requirement.
Come to think of it , although bass gets the majority of attention, in thinking a bit, treble has always been the frequencies that I more quickly found fault with. I am not saying it is impossible, but a separate little tweeter must be very hard to make musical, and even harder in my price range.
I screwed up on the high octaves before, and wouldn't enjoy repeating that mistake.
I once bought a car speaker I thought was trick, it was a Jenson 6x9 much like any other , except this one had a separate piezo tweeter in a little pod, a great advance over the more common treble drivers placed in the middle of the 6x9 oval that dominated the car stereo market back then.
The problem was I fell for some hype, at the time I read a lot of audio magazines, and they were trumpeting that piezo electric tweeters had just been developed and the world was rosy. it was only a bit later that they happened to mention the things were as annoying as a back up alarm to listen to, only more shrill. Heck , I could have told them that , the first time I tried out my new speaker installation.
I really like FiiO earphones and I own several pairs. However, all of mine cost well over $100. My favorite is the FD7 at $600. However, the FD5 is nearly as good at only $300. Therefore, I would recommend the FD3 IEM earphones at only $100. I've never heard these earphones, but based on my experience with the FD7's and FD5's, I would imagine these also represent an excellent value.
Good luck,
John Elison
I have seen your contributions on the vinyl forum, and value a suggestion from such a skilled person who is also generous enough to share intelligent insight.
Thank you, the suggestion triggered some needed further thought on my purchase goals.
The suggested product has a lot going for it, and I quickly shredded my hypothetical price restrictions once I started looking around the manufactures web site. . I suppose most audio enthusiasts knows how that goes. Beyond the honest and detailed advanced product features presentation, I was impressed that they mentioned who made their drivers.
When I was shopping for speakers, I quickly learned to separate those who identified who made the drivers as superior to the guys who just used anonymous parts in such a critical role. it certainly simplified and condensed my possible buy list quickly. ( really straining to not talk about my drivers here)
Right now I am giving some further thought , and favor the focal brand @ $150 dollars, but only after further exploration of the FiiO stuff going for around $200.
FiiO seems more aggressive with product features than focal, who makes their drivers in house, and has been around long enough as a respected company that I know the name . the inner ear monitor stuff is the hang up. I don't know the products, and don't know how seriously to take the sound blocking abilities advertised as IEM by FiiO. FiiO offers silver wire at a lower price , on the other hand, gaining further credibility.
once I gain some familiarity with this product category, I might jump in more deeply. If in fact, what seems outside my understanding is true, that dinkey little drivers can make the cut against regular squadron commander size headphones with large drivers , the comfort of earphones is the clear winner.
I will not be looking forward to buying the amplification needed. Same problem as the phones, high goals, short money, no product knowledge. Yet I remain interested in a really unneeded and potentially costly change in my hi fi direction, all because of a long ago binaural recording demonstration through some stax electrostatic headphones. My baby step is just new computer earphones, that will probably do it. It took me a long time to have a system that sounded better than most headphones, so have some resistance to explore this direction seriously, and I really like spending money on car travel.
After posting, I read that you don't like IEM earphones. FiiO used to make some excellent earbud earphones and the EM5 is still available on Amazon. I own this earphone and it is absolutely spectacular. In fact, I think it might sound slightly better than the FD5, both of which cost the same amount: $300. I know this is well above your budget, but it's the last FiiO earbud earphone available from Amazon.
Good luck,
John Elison
I was all in for the mission creep I was experiencing when considering what to buy, and was kind of warming to the $300 dollar product you suggested, with the only thing slowing my purchase was a concern about driving such a product out of my laptop. I needed more research.
That was until this week end, where after I got settled into the sand at a free concert at the beach,( all cover bands, nothing to brag about) looked down and realized I was sitting on my now buried in the sand earphones.
now I am toying with getting some lower cost ones that popped up when I searched for nano tube construction, which also use printed construction in the body. they don't cost the world , so I figure it might be fun to take a shot with new tech, figuring what the heck, plus knowing that ortofon upgraded their MM2 black cartridge with the same suspension material. it could well be the advanced and unique product claimed.
still deciding if I want to buy Chinese, fearing their exploitive labor practices might surface with low priced precision goods, but perhaps the printed product avoids that concern. also unsure about multiple drivers in some products because crossovers are so difficult .
I also used to have the first solar powered wrist watch on the market, , an analog pre digital minimalist thin design out of Germany, that got lost along the way. It's guys like me that make the interesting old stuff rare .
what I was trying to get across and failed was that I am familiar with in ear headphones and how fit effects performance, I just didn't want to get into extreme sound isolation , as a stage performance situation might require.
I sympathize with being frustrated with poor durability . As a matter of fact my first experience with better earbuds was with the shure brand, which came with a nice little zippered case but wasn't expensive enough for a replaceable wire feature, but that didn't matter, one side broke at the plastic on the way to the wire.
that experience had me happy with minimal investment in the fragile little items, but I think I will give a little higher price point another try. I subscribe to The NY Times, and they have a feature where Wirecutter tests and recommends products, which I find credible, so will probably follow their recommendation of some brand I never heard of .
You might be surprised at how many pleasant bike miles I have ridden over the years with music or information playing in my ears. once you have enough bad ideas through the years, you learn to compensate, somewhat.
BTW, My state law agrees with your position on safety, as I do, and enacted laws against piloting a vehicle while wearing headphones way back in the 60's, long before in ear speakers were invented.
I take the responsibility of piloting a car much more seriously than bike riding . I use my bike much more often than my car, at least my legs are in shape.
I purchased a set of Shure in-ear headphones for durability and have not been disappointed with the sound quality. I was previously frustrated with the fragile, non-replaceable wire of some high-end brands.
You said, "I don't want to be isolated from outside noise." If that's the case then you'll give up on good bass. Good bass depends on a solid earpiece fit in the ear.
BTW... bicycling with headphones - bad idea.
I had meant to have my reply after, and not jump ahead , of the response. Sorry, although I did consider it with more thought than my reply order.
I also mistakenly used the name focal in another replay, when I meant final, but it didn't matter, it was still made in china, which I am trying to avoid, if possible. I suppose the US military would have preferred to not have to use Chinese parts in their stuff, but had o alternative. Me, I can just skip the entire deal , it's not like there is a shortage of stuff to buy in this world.
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