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after going to several headphone shows in southern Cal I have come to the conclusion that electrostatics cant be beat.
not to say that orthos don't have virtues such as great bass "slam " but for an overall listening experience the Stax take the cake
now I have noticed that they have gotten stupid expensive lately but I would like to point out that I have heard them all - even thru the top of the line tube amps such as the Blue Hawaii SE and the low end versions still sound wonderful ... no need to shell out thousands
Follow Ups:
I respectfully disagree that Stax headphones are the best. I've been around long enough to know that you can never say this component or that component is the best. I've been into high end headphones since the early 90s when I bought my AKG K340 headphones. Since then I've owned electrostats, orthos, and dynamics. I owned the Stax SR009, Koss 950 and powered them with a Ray Samuels A10 electrostatic amp that I liked better than the BHSE.
The list of headphones that I owned include Audeze LCD4z, LCDX,LCD3 pre and post fazor, LCD2 pre-fazor, HiFiMan HE5, HE6, HEK v2 and HEK SE, Sennheiser HD600, HD650, and HD800. Sony CD3000, Beyerdynamic T1, AKG K340, K1000, K501, K701, and Grado RS1. I've owned a long list of amps
from Ray Samuels, Cavalli, Eddie Current, SPS, and Luxman.
My current set up is an Auris Nirvana SET tube amp that outputs 6.5W/Ch and a Luxman P700u balanced SS amp. My current favorite headphone is the ZMF Verite Open. I also own the Audeze LCD4z, Focal Utopia and I have a ZMF Aeolus on order.
My personal preference is for a full body sound with great dynamics, accurate imaging, liquid midrange and a enveloping soundstage. The ZMF Verite Open driven by the Auris Nirvana gives me these sound qualities. I seek these sound qualities not only in headphones but in my 2 speaker based systems as well. You can check out my 2 systems in my profile.
My point is that electrostats may sound the best to you but they're not for everyone and not just because of their cost. I've been to several Headfi shows and Axpona (3 of the last 5 years) and I've heard just about everything out there including the 009S and the Voce. My conclusion is different from yours so I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying your wrong, I can't say what is best for you just as you can't say what's best for me. BTW, I do think electrostats sound good, otherwise I wouldn't have bought the Stax that I eventually sold after about 5 years of ownership. However,for me, they've been surpassed by some dynamic and orthos.
My first set was the SR-44 electret. Loved them, sadly my son dismantled them when he was a toddler.
Picked up a set of SR-5s and SR-3s about ten years ago, then another set of SR-5s, getting ready to buy my first Pro Bias set.
I've heard a lot of different cans, owned stuff besides Stax, none of them have been as good.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
Edits: 03/23/20
The HiFiman Jade II is unbelievably good at the price and will compete with the Stax 009s with some feeling it is better. I do like it a little more than the Stax.
iBasso DX220, DX120. Focal Utopia and Stellia. iBasso SR1. Mr. Speakers, Ether II, Voce stats. Manley, Absolute HPamp. LTA MZ3, Z10e electrostatic amp. Various other headphones, amps, cables etc.
I've been looking at Stax, but the Jade II with amp is 1/3 the price. Are you still LOVING this headphone? Thanks.
While I in general agree that Stax headphones are outstanding, the Audeze LCD 3/4 headphones can compete with them very well.
I had a pair of Stax SR-007 II and a KGSSHV amp from Mjolnir Audio. I thought the combo sounded great. My only knit was that some recordings just sounded a bit threadbare.
Went a long time not listening to headphones, and wound up selling the setup. Well, after several months, the desire to have headphones came back. I had feedback from a number of fellow audiophools that planar headphones have many of the qualities of ESL cans, and can provide a fuller sound compared to ESL.
I can report that the Audeze LCD-3 cans are every bit as enjoyable as the Stax SR-007, and in many cases, do indeed a fuller sound over the Stax.
BTW, I get it that at this level, the headphone amp can make a large difference. Since I had such a positive experience with Mjolnir regarding amps, went with a Mjolnir Dynalo amp to drive the LCD-3 headphones. To me, it's as good as the Stax setup on most recordings, and exceeds the Stax on other recordings.
Horses For Courses
"What this country needs is a good 5 watt amplifier!" (Paul Klipsch)
Might just have to drag them out & give 'em a good listen. :)
I like electrostatic phones too. I own a Stax 007 Omega II headphone and a Blue Hawaii Special Edition amplifier/energizer. I have heard the latest 009 Stax phones and still prefer the 007 model. But, I am seriously considering the purchase of the Dan Clark (formerly Mr. Speaker) Voce electrostatic phones (warmer sounding).
There are a number of older electrostatic phones that are also very much competitive with what Stax offers. I like the Sennheiser HE60 phones and the ultra rare and expensive HE90 phones.
Larry -
Have you heard the Voce pair? Have you compared them to the 007 earspeakers?
"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"
At a recent audio show, I got to hear the Dan Clark Voce on a Blue Hawaii SE amp/energizer (what I own) and could compare it to the 009S. I liked the Voce more because I prefer a warmer tonal balance. I did not bring my 007s to the show to make a comparison. I suspect that the 007 would be closer to the Voce than the 009S. The Voce were also quite comfortable to wear, which is also the case with either Stax models.
Larry -
How do diaphragm size & thickness compare between Voce & the 009S? How was the bass response of the Voce? I have never had a single complaint regarding bass in my two Stax pairs, but that's one of the classic gripes listeners have about stats.
"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"
I don't know about the physical characteristics of the various headphones. I like the bass in the Voce--it has ample bass, which is also reasonably tight and articulate. The bass is quite deep and impactfull with the 009S as well, and both have deeper and punchier bass than the 007. The midbass is warmer in the Voce than either stax model, and I happen to like that tonal balance--too many phones sound a touch too lean and bright for my taste.
The pair of 007s that I have cannot be pushed too loud before some distortion is noticeable, even with the Blue Hawaii SE amp. Both the 009S and the Voce I heard can deliver higher volume levels. I don't do much high volume listening so it is not a big deal to me, but, the difference is noticeable.
But, in any case, both Stax models and the Voce are terrific sounding headphones.
Larry -
Do you like the 007 pair?
"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"
Yes, I do like it and prefer it to the 009. I also like the Voce enough to consider buying it too. At this level, it is not so much a case of liking one and hating another--it is more of a personal preference--where particular strengths of one model might better fit the priority of one person than another. I have also heard the Sennheiser HE60 on the Blue Hawaii in direct comparison with my 007 and an 009. In the midrange, I like the old HE60 model. I have not heard the HE90 in a long time, but, back in its day, it was clearly the best sounding electrostatic to me.
In the 'amp' and 'headphone' sale forums.
'A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on'. -Mark Twain
I have come to the conclusion that electrostatics cant be beat.
I came to that conclusion in the 70s. And that value isn't limited to headphones. :)
Owned some Stax phones in the past, but most of my use today is mobile using IEMs. Enjoy 535s but not quite willing to spend $2k for these . :)
https://staxaudio.com/system/stax-d1003At $1250, if in your price range, is a steal for the sound reproduction!
Edits: 02/19/20
Check out the $450 FiiO FH7 IEM earphones . I really like them and they seem to be quite comfortable. They also come with three sets of filters to augment different parts of the audio spectrum kind of like tone controls. I've only listened with the neutral filters for balanced sound, which sound beautiful to me. However, they have a set for dynamic bass emphasis and another set for detailed treble emphasis.
you've now become quite the Fiio fanboy. :)
I'm quite happy with Shure 535s especially now that I'm using Sensaphonics custom sleeves.
I commented on them in the post above .
My single most important audio purchase has been Stax SR-207 earspeakers, followed by the 507 pair. Clarity, speed, and resolution in bucketfuls. Seemingly made for hi-Rez. Stats have inspired me to listen a lot more & a lot more deeply.
"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"
> ...the low end versions still sound wonderful ... no need to shell out thousands...
So, which ones do you recommend that don't cost thousands?
Thanks,
John Elison
john, i am not sure (i haven't heard them) but tas just reviewed the hifiman 'stats that list for $2500 with amp. that does put the thousand in the plural category but not too far.
...regards...tr
I recently bought a pair of FiiO FH7 earbud headphones and they sound awesome to me. They also seem to be quite comfortable and they block out external noise exceptionally well. I really like them.
Happy New Year!
John Elison
my friend Steve Eshita has the Tin T 2 recommended by zeos pantera and they have GREAT sound with DEEEEP bass for about $50. i think i will get them. he also just bought the RAAL ribbon phones (NOT cheap) and really likes them so far. i won't be getting those but i will go listen for sure.
...regards...tr
Well, I really like my FiiO FH7 earphones. However, I'd be very interested in hearing your impressions of the RAAL ribbon headphones after you listen to them.
Thanks,
John Elison
alright, i heard them with Jotunheim R, VERY detailed and fast. sit differently on your head, you may or may not find them to be comfortable. the drivers are off ear, head clamp strange.
steve says that the lows are a bit reticent but worth the tradeoff. a headphone meet would probably be your best bet to try them, after the quarantine i would now say.
...regards...tr
Here in the asylum.
...regards...tr
here is a comment from a review of that electrostatic headphone system
"With the Jade II's fully settled-in, the first thing I noticed was the absolute lack of distortion of any kind. "
- Audiophile Style
Koss ESP-950
Okay! I own a pair of Koss ESP/950 electrostatic headphones. However, I've got a feeling they might not measure up to the Stax headphones. The Koss cans do sound nice, though.
Thanks!
John Elison
The amp provided is lacking the power to help these headphones out. Get a converter cable and use a Stax amp and you won't feel that. They punch well above there weight with a better amp.
Mass Drop has a version for $400. Almost bought it but I like bass...
Cut to razor sounding violins
yes the STAX SRS-3170 Electrostatic Earspeaker System - the low end system is fantasticas a ref I say this after listening to all the great orthos on state of the art equipment such as ultra high end triode headphone amps
I have heard the top of the line stax too on the blue Hawaii, cavalli and top of the line Woo dedicated electrostatic amps
Imho the low end stax system tops the high end orthos
if you are a bass head and need the ultimate slam then no I am wrong here but if you are into vocals, folk music, jazz, acoustic instruments light rock the electrostatics are in a class by themselves
I was surprised too - but after several shows hearing 100s of systems I have drawn a strong conclusion
Edits: 12/23/19
Since i never heard stax or other electrostatic headphones i will never know. Pretty sure triodes are the last thing i would use with orthos. And most orthos arent damped. Crazy how a bit of dynamat will fix the sound.
I like full range sound so spending dough to get less range didnt make sense to me. The senn hd600/650 is another example of phones i couldnt bring myself to buy. I know i would just be missing the bass.
I thought about eq but figured that would just be a waste.
Another issue with stats fo me is the fact my existing amp would be useless. Its just a rabbit hole i dont want to go down.
Cut to razor sounding violins
so basically you have not heard them- so you cant really know how good they are , yet you know they don't make bass and would not want to buy them anyhow - but had to let me know that.
Edits: 12/24/19 12/24/19
You might want to put down the Eggnog man.
I responded to Old Nuke who mentioned the Koss 950s. Then YOU responded to my post which was directed at Old Nuke. So I responded to your post. And now you are getting combative when it was you who went out of the way to let me know...
FWIW you are the one who said "if you are a bass head and need the ultimate slam then no I am wrong here"
So sure I haven't heard the stax but in terms of lacking bass I take your word on it. And just about every review on stats talks about lacking bass.
I for one like bass...
Cut to razor sounding violins
The bass is just ridiculously perfect in quanity, quality, definition, and slam on Abyss Phi TC planars.
However, I have to say a great 'stat on capable amp also provides fantastic bass, not wanting for more really. Stax SR009, for example, has phenomenal bass, although often people like to EQ up the bass a dB or two to personal taste.
and it does both, to an excellent level. I prefer the Abyss (latest version) for the wonderful dynamics, and more solid layering and imaging. And that is from the same amp. :^)
iBasso DX220, DX120. Focal Utopia and Stellia. iBasso SR1. Mr. Speakers, Ether II, Voce stats. Manley, Absolute HPamp. LTA MZ3, Z10e electrostatic amp. Various other headphones, amps, cables etc.
I see you have the Stax there too
whats your take on how they compare ???
This comparison is difficult because the amplifiers have to be different. They have very different characters and one does not replace the other, so usually one ends up keeping both...
your system link is not only bad (two http prefixes) but broken. Might want to update. :)
Thanks Jon. That planar is on my bucket list. Good to know about the stax. Was thinking of boosting the bass on a stat. Figured that would be a must.
Cut to razor sounding violins
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